Syil - My Experience

[Simon Wells]

I wanted to share my experience with the dealing with Syil, it's products and distribution network for those users that maybe considering purchasing from Syil.

There maybe users that have had no problem with them, but for me, it really has been a nightmare.

I have dealt with many Chinese manufacturers across a number of industries and hate the stigma attached to any product when you announce it was made in China. I have worked with many great Chinese manufacturer that care about their products, brand, reputation and customers.

However, Syil have been an exception, let me explain.

I started dealing with the UK distributor back in February of this year and after visiting a local user for a demo and to see if the system (X4) would be suitable to make my parts, I was impressed with it.
Shortly after an order was raised for a X4+, stand, coolant etc.
I was aware that we would have to wait a month for the order to be shipped from China, that time soon came and went and we had to keep chasing to find out where it was.

When their consignment did arrive in the UK, we found out our product had not been shipped because the distribributor forgot!! to order it. Not a very good start.
Having lost a month, I set about contacting China, US, Canada, France, Hungary to see if they had a X4+ which we could get to us. US and Canada failed to even respond, even to requests for their ATC unit. China wanted to help but were reluctant and insisted we had to buy through UK. Hungary and France were out of stock of the model I wanted. I must say, the service from France was top notch and he did everything he could to keep us informed whilst trying to supply.

I ended up having to settle for the X4 Standard from UK as that was all that was available, other than the X5 which has smaller working area and was too small for my application. UK still managed to invoice us for the higher price system too.

We took delivery and upon opening the crate, we noticed damage to the machine, loose parts, oil leaks all of which were photographed whilst still in the crate and sent to both UK and China. In addition, we had no stand or coolant as again, UK had failed to order them too.

No one at Syil really seemed to be bothered with the fact that we were not happy with the system, despite reassurances that is should be ok and the blasé comments from China that I was expecting too much as its not a $100K system.

UK found us an ex-demo stand for us which they did supply to us free of charge, which was a positive step, unfortunatley it arrived covered in green paint and only two fixing holes. The X4 base has 4 mounting holes to fix it to the stand and I was told that Syil ship the stands without holes in them, which just seems crazy that you then have to drill and tap the stand before you can mount the system. Additionally, the dimensions provided in the manually for these fixings holes are not correct, so dont rely on them if you have the same issue, take them from the system instead.

So I got the system finally built, configured MACH3 following the supplied User Manual. Take care with the manuals, they are in Pigeon English and if you dont know what you are doing, then its confusing, so much so that I even went to the trouble of rewriting some parts to make it more clearer to understand and passed this back to China.

The system just did not work correctly, the motors were noisy and did not run smoothly, oil leaked constantly from the automatic oiling system, so we contacted Syil to report this and requested that we were not sure if this was a problem caused by shipping damage or not made correctly. According to Syil, its perfectly normal for the oiler to leak, even though we had not run the system, just powered up. In the few hours it was powered up, it leaked so much that the oiler tank was empty. It took weeks to get Syil to confirm what oil type had to be put in the tank and almost as long for them to provide details of the oiler system so we could verify the DIP switch settings. Even with this set to the shortest shot time, it still leaks.

UK sent out an engineer to check the system, who confirmed that the oil leak was not normal, I still have no idea if he feed this back to UK or China.
This leak, for those interested, is coming from the top of the pillar, where it is meant to lubricate the Z axis rails, it literally pours outs. Video was supplied to China, who still say its normal. Who else has to refill their oiler every 5 hours?
The engineer spent a long time testing and confirmed that the motor movement was not correct. The X axis was stripped down, couplings and worm gear (which we dry) were checked.
Several hours later, we changed the laptop to a PC and hey presto it worked correctly.

You will see many great images of Syil products with a laptop attached to the integrate monitor arm, TAKE NO NOTICE.
If Syil tell you can use a laptop TAKE NO NOTICE. You'd think you can trust what your told, but their is a disclaimer in the depths of the manual that tells you not to. Why? power management limitations on laptops interfer the the required stablility of comms on the parallel port, apparently.

So we are now in August and apparently we are all set to go, but we still dont have the coolant kit.
As a relative noob to CNC, I read and have been given conflicting information regarding the need to use collant when machining our ali tools.
We need it, we don't I still am not sure, but want to find out formyself, wheer my coolant kit is.
Turns out, UK are still waiting for their order again and I should wait another 4 weeks. Well those 4 weeks come and go and I am left chasing Syil to find out were the remainder of my order is.

UK then say they will arrange one to be air freighted to us, that never happens either, China knows nothing of it and UK blame China for running out of parts.
Communitcations between these two parties seem just not to work. I am left being told to wait for the ship freight to arrive, again, this does not arrive as planned and I have to chase yet again.

UK blames China as they have not sent the shipping documents.
China blames UK for not paying the shipping costs.
I am now pretty upset by the whole fiasco and I do make this perfectly clear in my emails back and forth between each party, but yet no one is really getting the whole point of basic customer service as I am left sat in the middle of these two as mediator, thought I was the customer here.
China say its just a minor problem, and they wont ship by air as its too expensive at $500. I import a lot of machined parts in larger packages than the coolant kit and never paid that much for air freight.

I dont like dangling carrots as it were, but in the early stages, when things were not too bad, I had discussed with China that our company would be interested in a further 10 systems as we would be supplying them as a kit to our partners around the world. Of course they were interested to work with us on this.
Well since all the problems I have had, I just cant take the risk with Syil. Absolutley 100% I just dont trust Syils service or quality and I have had to make that perfectly clear.
3/4 months waiting for an order to be completed, having to constantly chase the suppiers, no follow communications from them, poor excuses just doen't cut it for me, so I informed them that the 10 system order, its cancelled, I would not be giving it to Syil.
Right after that, China agreed to air ship the coolant kit. Wow! I was surprised but unfortunatley just didn't believe them.

Well a couple of days later, this week in fact, my coolant kit arrived.
Hooray I thought, the saga is over . . . . OH NOT YET!!

I opened the rattling box to find the coolant tank wrapped in bubble wrap, great start.
But inside, were all the parts, hoses, clamps, pump, mesh grills all loose, not a single one wrapped or protected.
The pump looking worse for wear, cover in scratches and gouges, but the worse part was the coolant tank itself.
I dont expect too much from Syil, but as an engineering company I kind of expect that if you have a pump that needs to be fixed with 4 fixings, that the drilled and tapped hole in the tank would actually be done correctly. Not only do the fixing not align with the pump, even worse there are only 3 of them. The forth was attempted, but as the others were so off, the 4th partially struck the box, before slipping into the pump cutout hole. Someone at Syil knew about it, as they just painted over it. Why the heck wasn't this box rejected!!
Despite all the troubles I have with Syil, they still send out sub standard quality work.

Come on guys, your meant to be a manufacturer, not just any type, but a CNC manufacturer, what sort of impression are you giving when you cant even drill 4 holes, in the correct position!!!
For what its worth, I informed China who again just dont seem to care. Their response "occasionally , the hole of tank not match his water pump .when install it ,the paint will lose ."
The image supplied clearly shows the problem, there is no lost paint, the hole is just not their.
Am I being too picky, I attach the images here so you can judge for yourself, plus a few of the system directly after unpacking which were also sent to Syil.

This post is just my opinion based on my experience with Syil, it maybe a unique set of issues, but its happened and not resolved as proffesionally as it could.

If you had a faultless transaction, great thats how it should be.
If you had problems and they sorted it quickly and effectlively, great thats how it should be.
For me, its just been a shambles.

Would I recommend Syil to a home enthusiasts thats has saved up their hard earned cash, no.
Would I recommend Syil to a small business looking for an affordable tool to kick start them into the world of CNC, no.

Finally, I did tell UK and China, that I would be posting my experience. I have at least over 100 emails over the course of this too, to backup my claims.

The Images attached show:
Damage coolant cover.
Coolant tank, mis-drilled hole
Poor quality to Spindle head.
Round bolt heads
Damaged cable loom.
Oil leaking from behind the system. That is the Z motor covered in oil from the auto lubrication pump.

[syil]

when Mr hugh shipment arrive,i will ask him arrange a new coolant tank and other parts to you asap.
sorry for inconveniently.

[digitalmdi]

At least you can take comfort in knowing that you received one of their better units.

[syil]

my UK dealer never complain us,i read your post very carefully,it is some misunderstand and something not very turth..

frist,syil china not very konw UK dealer inventory.yes,he maybe out of stocks of his coolant.but you can see his shipment arrive at this month.we never complain he is not pay for us,then we delay documents,no no.
i just got his new order around 150000$ with very quick payment from mr hugh.

about the coolant i sent to you it is really cost 500$.even more.the coolant parts,we sell around 300$.and i pay 1800RMB for DHL cost.around 300$ too.
as i email i explain could you wait for some days,becuase it is really arrive without mr hugh shipment,but your are not accpet,so we sent it from china.
yes,it is have some quality issue.but at least,we are take care of customers,and yours.

i will still ask mr Hugh arrange a new coolant tank for you.

here it is mr hugh email for us and your.i don`t think he have so bad service..

Simon,
I’m very sorry for the continuing saga which has been your experience with us. There is blame to be attached to both sides but, so I understand from other people who have been trading with Chinese companies, blame can also be hoisted upon some western companies such as Apple who have taken away many skilled workers from existing manufacturers as well as the problem sourcing parts and materials. I put my order in May of this year and I’ve just been informed that the order went on board on the 29th August. I’ve never waited so long for an order – Syil aren’t to blame for this as most of my suppliers are in the same position and I’ve been out of stock of most machines for a considerable time. I should be jumping up and down, but it wouldn’t help and I’m just learning to live with it (sorry, I’m not trying to make a point!)
This order that we’ve been waiting for (largely pre-sold and with one or two customers getting rather fed up with the delay) should now be at my doorstep by the 29th September (23 days at sea and up to 7 days clearing customs etc.). I asked for one coolant kit to be air-freighted and was told that the reservoir needed to be ordered. I can only surmise that there was another delay there and a decision was made to include it in my order – I really don’t know.
Believe it or not Simon, we have many very happy customers and I’m in touch with several from time to time. If it’s any consolation I will be able to offer support in one way or another for some considerable time, with either Rob being available for technical help or ourselves at Amadeal with parts if required. There have been occasions in the past when we’ve had a customer up and running within 48 hours when perhaps a coupler had failed or a psu had given up. Fortunately, there are now very few problems with these machines.
Having said that, your experience hasn’t been good at all and, once you have the coolant kit in place and everything is running as it should do we will do what we can to keep it that way.

Regards,
Hugh
Syil.UK

[syil]

also,becuase of syil in europe business growth.
we are in and have been make some movement to establish a branch office in europe to stocks all parts,and some machines.
syil europe warehouse will not make retail business only service for syil dealers,provide full parts inventory.traning,and machine fast repaire,and extra machine instant delivery.
the office in plan to set at Germany or in swiss.

i think in future such like mr simon problems,will reduce and can not happen any more..

[Simon Wells]

my UK dealer never complain us,i read your post very carefully,it is some misunderstand and something not very turth..

That is the problem.
My complaint to UK dealer was not being passed on to you.
That is also why I make sure that I include Syil china in all correspondence.

I speak only the truth, there is no point in me making false claims and is why I can back this up with emails between us.

[Simon Wells]

i think in future such like mr simon problems,will reduce and can not happen any more..

The problems can only be solved if you listen to your customers and deal with them timely.
3 months waiting for coolant kit is not acceptable.

To send such poor quality as in the picture, shows your poor quality control.

To respond to the coolant problem in the way Mr Wang did, is just closing the door and not accepting responsibility.

I do thank you though for arranging Mr Hugh to replace the tank, why has he not contacted me directly, why has he not responded to me emails?

Just because someone is passing you £150K orders does not mean they are providing your brand with good service.
You already lost further £50K from me because of your poor service.

[Simon Wells]

as i email i explain could you wait for some days,becuase it is really arrive without mr hugh shipment,but your are not accpet,so we sent it from china.
yes,it is have some quality issue.but at least,we are take care of customers,and yours.

Why did I not accept to wait some days?

Because at the time, Mr Hugh tell me he have no shipping documents from Syil, so he have no idea when they arrive.
Syil email me and say Mr Hugh did not pay shipping costs, remember the email we had about blaming each other?
Then he send me email telling me that Syil did not process his order so it was not coming, you want a copy?

You are fast to forget sometimes which adds to the concern.

[Simon Wells]

At least you can take comfort in knowing that you received one of their better units.

So I am not the only one with problems then.

[syil]

this is email from Mr hugh to me and you

hello Simon,
I've just recently been informed that my order is arriving on or around the 29th/30th September and I'll be able to ship another coolant kit to you very shortly after.
Regards
Hugh
Syil.UK


he will sent it when shipment arrive.

[iGG1e]

At least you can take comfort in knowing that you received one of their better units.

Indeed he did. Mine is currently as effective as a boat anchor and one step away from becoming one.

[lovebugjunkie]

Glad I dropped by and saw this. From your pictures this unit should never have made it out the door, sure makes me wonder if they have any type of quality control. Does not look like they do.
I was going to order a C6-B Lathe on Monday and transferred enough money into my account I use on the internet last night. After seeing your pictures and reading other comments about Syil machines, I will not be ordering anything from Syil.