Advice on lifting heavy milling gear at home

[Jim Dawson]

That sounds like a good bit of luck. Nobody has ever left any heavy duty machinery on my doorstep.... not even at Christmas....

Cost aside, the main issue for me is space. As a practical matter, large equipment like that is too much trouble if you don't have a regular use for them. My needs are for a one time job or very occasional use.


Renting large lifting equipment like forklift trucks is only an option if you already have a license. I understand that a fork lift is the ideal tool for the job though. It's the first thing I looked into.


I did look into renting other types of (smaller) lifting equipment near where I live but the price was not too different to buying something.


I like that the crane folds away so it can be stored out of the way when not in use. The electric hoist is small enough to go in a closet and the gantry will be disassembled when the job is done.


I guess this is the downside to working with carbon fiber - you have no excuse to buy cool toys like that excavator as everything is light weight. I think that most of us would be facing divorce if we tried to park a large orange excavator in the driveway.

I do tend to run across deals. Over the years I have managed to equip my shop for a lot less cost than most. I do buy and sell equipment and do some horse trading, so always on the lookout for the right deal, anything from hand tools to heavy equipment. I won't buy worn out junk equipment, but if it has minor problems I can fix it. I especially like brain dead CNC equipment. Normally can pick those up for scrap price or less and they're easy to fix.

This is not the place for a complete list, but one example is my 10x54 CNC mill. Mechanically almost like new, with a failing controller. Paid $1000 for it, but after selling my BP clone and tooling up the new mill I actually had $0 out of pocket. The controller repairs cost me nothing but a little time and a $30 power supply. I even bought my property for $100K under market.

The deals are out there if you want to go after them and are willing to put in a little work on them. And I'm retired so it gives me something to do in my spare time.

[Goemon]

I do tend to run across deals. Over the years I have managed to equip my shop for a lot less cost than most. I do buy and sell equipment and do some horse trading, so always on the lookout for the right deal, anything from hand tools to heavy equipment. I won't buy worn out junk equipment, but if it has minor problems I can fix it. I especially like brain dead CNC equipment. Normally can pick those up for scrap price or less and they're easy to fix.

This is not the place for a complete list, but one example is my 10x54 CNC mill. Mechanically almost like new, with a failing controller. Paid $1000 for it, but after selling my BP clone and tooling up the new mill I actually had $0 out of pocket. The controller repairs cost me nothing but a little time and a $30 power supply. I even bought my property for $100K under market.

The deals are out there if you want to go after them and are willing to put in a little work on them. And I'm retired so it gives me something to do in my spare time.

I like that approach. I use it myself in other areas. Used high end electronics from 5 years ago are usually better than equivalent price new stuff of today. It's a myth that prices go down on new tech if you wait. "I paid $2000 for my $50,000 projector plus a $7,000 lens with less than 10 hours on it. 10 years later and I still couldn't buy a new projector for $2000 that is anywhere near as good.

If I could go back to give myself advise at the start of my CNC project on what materials to buy and which approach to take, there is a whole laundry list of ways I could have saved time and money while ending up with a better finished product.


I am kinda intrigued by what I could do with one of those broken CMM machines you see on ebay. They look like awesome machine bases for CNC builds / conversions. They start at $400 and they come with precision granite tables with cast iron or granite gantry beams plus precision rails on the x and y (in some cases). For some of them you would only need to upgrade the Z-axis to something more suitable for the cutting forces. They are certainly more robust than any of those cheap aluminum benchtop CNC machines people buy.


I passed up a whole bunch of good deals on high end / labor saving parts because I was worried that I wouldn't be able to move them from the delivery truck to my work space. If only I would have bought some lifting gear first...

[Jim Dawson]

OMG ! I had never looked at Ebay for CMMs. There are some deals there. It would be simple to fix one of those ''for parts only'' machines and bring it up to modern specs. I think I see another project in my future Then I would need temperature control in my shop to be able to use it properly.

I picked up a small (12x12) optical (10x to 50x I think) inspection granite table with a nice high end camera and lenses for $100 a while back. Makes it kind of nice when I'm working on small parts.

You are correct, one of those would make a great starting point for a ''table top'' router, would be several orders of magnitude better than the aluminum frame stuff on Ebay. Wouldn't be hard to redesign the Z carriage to make it much more robust. That sounds like a fun project. Now you'll be able to lift it with your new gear.

I started out machining in a 12x14 room, and couldn't work on anything that I couldn't bring in on a hand truck. When I bought this place with a 1200 sqft shop it looked like I had a lot of room. Not so much anymore, now I have just enough room to get my truck inside. Empty space seems to fill with stuff.

[handlewanker]

So, Jim is a compulsive hoarder too........LOL.......I'm trying to move on 35 years of "treasure" that at my age won't be worked on ever......sigh, too many irons in the fire.,,,,,,problem is, the moment I give something away the next day I need it again.
Ian.

[Goemon]

OMG ! I had never looked at Ebay for CMMs. There are some deals there. It would be simple to fix one of those ''for parts only'' machines and bring it up to modern specs. I think I see another project in my future Then I would need temperature control in my shop to be able to use it properly.

I picked up a small (12x12) optical (10x to 50x I think) inspection granite table with a nice high end camera and lenses for $100 a while back. Makes it kind of nice when I'm working on small parts.

You are correct, one of those would make a great starting point for a ''table top'' router, would be several orders of magnitude better than the aluminum frame stuff on Ebay. Wouldn't be hard to redesign the Z carriage to make it much more robust. That sounds like a fun project. Now you'll be able to lift it with your new gear.

I started out machining in a 12x14 room, and couldn't work on anything that I couldn't bring in on a hand truck. When I bought this place with a 1200 sqft shop it looked like I had a lot of room. Not so much anymore, now I have just enough room to get my truck inside. Empty space seems to fill with stuff.

They do look perfect for the job.

Granite tables with granite or cast iron gantry beams is pretty much as good as it gets with CNC machines. If you tried to buy even a broken granite CNC machine it would cost more than most could afford for use at home but those broken CMM machines are practically being given away.


It might sound like another unrealized project to hoard but... For me... it's all the unused parts that take up the space. A CMM to CNC conversion could happen quite quickly with fewer parts than a build from scratch. It would arrive 85% complete with no need for all that time consuming leveling, squaring, paralleling, flattening, drilling, tapping etc. I.e. the stuff that makes people put projects on hold and hoard the parts.


There would be less need for upgrade or future builds too. What's better than precision granite that's perfectly flat, parallel and square?


The other idea I wish I would have seen before I started was all those old overhead and pin routers. They are even cheaper than CMM machines and they would also be a good start for a CNC mill project.


Old overhead routers come with 1000lb or 2000lb cast iron bases / columns plus a ready to use table. Many of them come with working high speed spindles that are driven by powerful low speed / high torque 4-pole induction motors. The last one I looked at achieved 20,000 rpm from an 1800rpm 7.5hp motor using pulleys and gears. You would just need to add a VFD to give yourself some speed control and add the linear motion components with electronics to make a very robust, powerful and inexpensive CNC machine for milling aluminum.


Try finding a low cost 20,000 rpm belt drive spindle from an old mill that is robust enough for a 7.5hp 1800rpm motor and you'd be starting at $5,000 (if you are lucky).


Many people just want these old heavy pin routers out of their garage.... they are a lot of iron for very little money....

[handlewanker]

CMM's are designed for indicating forces not cutting forces and you can't modify them without upsetting their alignment.........a plain slab of granite for a table is a totally different matter.

[Goemon]

CMM's are designed for indicating forces not cutting forces and you can't modify them without upsetting their alignment.........a plain slab of granite for a table is a totally different matter.

I know what they are designed for but that doesn't matter if you install your own rails and motors. What matters is if the base and gantry are strong and stiff enough for the job, which they are. I have no doubts at all.

Some of these CMM machines have 8" thick granite gantries and 6" thick granite tables. It doesn't matter what the intended purpose was. Something like that will be stronger, stiffer, more stable and flatter than what most people here could build or buy the same money. I'd take one over any of those $3,000 Chinese 6090 or 6040 CNC routers off ebay. I'd bet my house that a granite CMM gantry could withstand more force before bending.


Obviously you can't use any old CMM machine but there are plenty of viable options. Even some of the cheaper iron gantry models with granite tables would work. For example, this one with it's one piece iron frame / gantry with granite table:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/MITUTOYO-CMM-F905-Coordinate-Measuring-Machine/322947584713?epid=14011660875&hash=item4b312d12c9: g:UJwAAOSwZlZaOVo


In the right hands, it would make a very robust fixed gantry machine.


Personally, If I could choose any of the old (and cheap) CMM machines currently on eBay, I'd look for a deal on this one:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/C126183-Vie...UAAOSwuOxZzYdA




I can't imagine what a man might be cutting if they can't find the strength or stiffness needed with 2000-4000lb of solid granite....


I found some old threads on this site where people converted CMM machines to CNC mills. It's not a new idea. It's been done before. What is new is the large number of deals on old analogue machines that nobody wants these days.

[Jim Dawson]

I'll bet they would take less than $1000 for that last one. Might be worth a road trip and it's kinda close to me only about 600 miles.

[Goemon]

I'll bet they would take less than $1000 for that last one. Might be worth a road trip and it's kinda close to me only about 600 miles.

I bet you are right. I've been keeping an eye on those things for the last 8 months and I haven't seen a single one of them sell. Aside from a small percentage of us here, who would want a heavy broken machine from the early 90's in their house?

I bet most of those sellers would just be happy for someone to come and clear it out of their workspace.


The same goes for those old pin and overhead routers.

[Goemon]

As an update on the lifting problem for anyone trying to figure out how to move something heavy at home, both the electric hoist and the foldable crane do the job.

But.... after trying both.... I recommend the foldable crane. The electric hoist requires that you can mount it to something heavy duty, high up above what you are moving. There are no cheap off-the-shelf gantry structures to buy so you are either going to be making your own or cementing a mount to your ceiling (which is a project on it's own).
If you mount it on the ceiling you can only use it in one place. Not great if you need to move something from the delivery truck into your work space.


I was able to make a fairly robust 4 leg gantry frame from 2" x 4" x 48" t-slot extrusions but I ultimately needed more lift than that allowed. Plus, if you are even slightly off-center when you lift, a moderately heavy item (like my gantry) will bend, rip and tear through an 80/20 extrusion like it was a wet paper bag. Or, it will topple it over (if you haven't bolted it to the floor).


I like the foldable crane because it is an all in one moving and lifting solution. If you need to move a milling machine from the curb to your work space and then lift it onto a 36" table, a foldable crane is the right tool for the job. It's (very) slow but versatile. Tormach (and others) recommends them for lifting their CNC mills.


Neither option is right for moving heavy stuff on a regular basis in a commercial environment. The crane is too slow and a cheap electric hoist is not going to survive continuous usage.


Get the crane from Harbor Freight if you live near one. Works out cheaper than ebay. As a stroke of luck, there was one less than a mile from my house.

[Jim Dawson]

When I get a couple of other projects out of my hair, I may go get a CMM. It would be fun to turn it into a modern working machine again.

You are lucky, the closest Harbor Freight to me is about 10 miles. But I like it out in the country.

[jalessi]

[Goemon]

When I get a couple of other projects out of my hair, I may go get a CMM. It would be fun to turn it into a modern working machine again.

You are lucky, the closest Harbor Freight to me is about 10 miles. But I like it out in the country.

I'd like to as well. Maybe when I am ready to invest in doing right. It would be a shame to put sub-standard components on precision granite.