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Thread: How I built a fog-less coolant mister

  1. #21
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    I am not going to tell anyone they should not be careful with pressure vessels.

    Everyone understands that gases are compressed under pressure. No one is trying to say that explosive decompression is not dangerous. However, I have a 500% safety factor at 20psi. These units are in widespread commercial service. I doubt Hench would still be selling Fogbuster units if the coolant canisters all exploded. I also feel that using the water filter canister is much safer than the homemade jobs I have seen while researching for this project.

    This may be a good time to say that this unit is potentially dangerous and operates under pressure. All users should understand the risks of this type of device before undertaking its construction or operation.

    I will leave it at that.

    Last edited by UWP_Wes; 04-10-2010 at 08:04 PM.


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    Hi, Wes:

    I would like to build this design: it seems to use a lot of OTS components, which i like.

    Could you provide a bit more detail on the plumbing arrangement between the air supply and the canister and nozzle? I guess you have a T in threre somewhere to supply air to the top of the block and the canister also?

    Sorry for the elementary questions..



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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenvilleDave View Post
    Hi, Wes:

    Could you provide a bit more detail on the plumbing arrangement between the air supply and the canister and nozzle? I guess you have a T in threre somewhere to supply air to the top of the block and the canister also?

    Sorry for the elementary questions..
    Yes there is a T connection. Look at the block diagram above. Basically, the T connection is on the inlet side of the canister.

    Air comes in from the compressor, it goes to the inlet side of the canister and to the larger port of the mixing block (via the T connection). The outlet side of the canister has a tube that extends to the bottom of the canister to pick up the coolant and deliver it to the smaller port of the mixing block. It is dead simple once you figure it out .



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    I find it funny that some are so concerned about the dangers of the 20 psi charged water filter that is "mostly" full of liquid anyway, but no one raises an eyebrow when someone mentions welding on an old propane tank. The regulator is upstream of the cylinder apparatus, so there is a limited air volume that could send the shards flying. An additional safety factor could be designed in by simply placing a flow restriction on the entry to the water filter.

    I like the zero fog idea and this design seems simple, yet I am having trouble convincing myself that this is such a breakthrough in technology. I have fiddled around with a cheap airbrush from harbor freight and find that I can easily get large droplets by simply misadjusting the spray nozzle. Perhaps I'm missing something here.



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    You can see the original Fogbuster design at: http://www.fogbuster.com/

    A look through the website reveals the patent number: 5,390,854

    You can view the patent at Google Patents:
    http://www.google.com/patents/about?...=0&as_maxy_is=

    [url]www.CNC-Joe.com[/url]
    CNC Is Not Just My Passion.. It's My Addiction !!!!


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    I know I am late to the party but you are not missing anything. That would work too if the paint bottle is pressurized but if it is just a siphon it takes too much air flow to operate without creating a fog. Also if it 1 of those little airbrushes, you would have to refill pretty often I would think.
    Quote Originally Posted by lasersafe1 View Post
    I find it funny that some are so concerned about the dangers of the 20 psi charged water filter that is "mostly" full of liquid anyway, but no one raises an eyebrow when someone mentions welding on an old propane tank. The regulator is upstream of the cylinder apparatus, so there is a limited air volume that could send the shards flying. An additional safety factor could be designed in by simply placing a flow restriction on the entry to the water filter.

    I like the zero fog idea and this design seems simple, yet I am having trouble convincing myself that this is such a breakthrough in technology. I have fiddled around with a cheap airbrush from harbor freight and find that I can easily get large droplets by simply misadjusting the spray nozzle. Perhaps I'm missing something here.




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    Hi,

    What are you using for a coolant??

    I just completed building a system similar to the authors but using a modified air brush for the nozzle. It appears to work very well but have just been spraying water as a test fluid. It's time to order some coolant but which one? I don't want something that turns to goo or eat paint off of my machines. From what I have read a synthetic fluid is what appears to be the answer.

    Thanks,
    Robert



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    Any updates/improvements in this project?

    I plan to build a fog-less mister for my Sherline mill and lathe but would like to know if anyone has made some improvements to the basic design. I am particularly interested in the size of nozzle orifice.

    Cheers

    Norbert


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    Quote Originally Posted by MaNo View Post
    Any updates/improvements in this project?

    I plan to build a fog-less mister for my Sherline mill and lathe but would like to know if anyone has made some improvements to the basic design. I am particularly interested in the size of nozzle orifice.

    Cheers
    Somebody went to using a small MIG gun tip for the nozzel. Cheap and saves making this part.

    Karl



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    Thanks Karl,
    While I don't have a MIG tip I did get a small selection of nozzles with a blowgun I bought a while back. From 2mm, 1mm, down to 0.75mm. That small one I think they call 'needle' tip for some kind of valve on a sports ball.

    Could even go down to 0.5 or 0.3 mm. I have managed to take the ball out of some empty metal ballpoint refills and the front section of those refills fits nicely into the 2mm tip.

    I suppose it's now trial and error time although I feel that the 0.3 and 0.5mm tips will be too small to be of use

    Norbert


  11. #31
    Member Karl_T's Avatar
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    my nozzle is almost exactly 1mm. The unit has worked over ten years now with no maintenance



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    Just as an FYI, if anyone is interested, I tried a similar build with all off the shelf parts for those that might have a CNC router but not a mill or lathe. (That's how I started out) I have one part I did use my lathe on and then solder the pieces, but I think it could have been drilled out and epoxy used instead for a very minimal tool build.
    Link is here if you are interested, I based everything else on what I found here, so thanks for the great thread.



    Pete



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    I more or less complete the mister project and was just about buy the receptacle for the coolant when I remembered that I used to like my Coke 'flat' . I used to shake the PET bottle until it was rock-hard. I have no idea what the pressure was but it was undoubtedly much higher than the pressure in the mister system.

    I then tested a bottle to 110 psi without problem......so for me the coolant container will be a soft drink PET bottle. The original bottle caps don't have a wide enough surface for the air/coolant fittings so I am now doing a 'cap' for the original bottle cap which can take those fittings.

    The advantage of this setup is the fact that, apart from next to no cost (I do have to buy some softdrinks again) I can have bottles of various types of coolant at the ready.

    Norbert


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    Quote Originally Posted by MaNo View Post
    I then tested a bottle to 110 psi without problem......so for me the coolant container will be a soft drink PET bottle. The original bottle caps don't have a wide enough surface for the air/coolant fittings so I am now doing a 'cap' for the original bottle cap which can take those fittings.
    Cool idea Mano .. I was wondering about doing this. Have you had success in machining a cap to take the required fittings? What did you find the thread pitch to be on the top cap? I cant find any of those type of water filters locally and don't want to order one.

    I was going to weld up a tank from stainless, but I would quite prefer to bea able to see my fluid level at a glance



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    Quote Originally Posted by dogmeatk View Post
    Cool idea Mano .. I was wondering about doing this. Have you had success in machining a cap to take the required fittings? What did you find the thread pitch to be on the top cap? I cant find any of those type of water filters locally and don't want to order one.

    I was going to weld up a tank from stainless, but I would quite prefer to bea able to see my fluid level at a glance
    Can't find my camera to show you but it's really simple. Rather than trying to duplicate the thread I am using the original cap but made a 'cap' for the original. I used some stuff like Corian (brand of acrylic countertop material), made the pocket about 5mm bigger in diameter, about the same depth as the original and poured some epoxy into the pocket and pressed the original into it. Make sure you don't pour excessive epoxy, just enough to come almost to the top when pressing the original into the pocket.

    When cured, drill your holes. I spaced them 3mm apart. I was lucky enough to have a drill bit of exactly the same diameter as the tubing. No sealant needed at that low a pressure.

    My nozzle is from a metal ballpoint refill with the ball removed. Very fine and probably 0.3mm orifice. Shortly after doing that I discovered a long-necked and angled (gas?) welding tip at the hardware store with an orifice of maybe 0.5mm diameter. There is a '4' stamped on it, so maybe it's 0.4mm... dunno... but with my setup I am using 500ml (16oz) of surgical alcohol per 3-1/2 to 4 hours. I can probably do better once I receive the proper needle valve I ordered. Right now I am using some old piece of junk.

    Norbert


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    Just an FYI on this. It has been my experience that Kool Mist 77 will deteriorate Polycarbonate. It will make it crack, craze and become very brittle. It isn't supposed to do that, but I have seen it happen several times.

    I would certainly check on the plastic type of the vessel and steer away from Kool Mist 77 or 78.
    Metal or glass like what you see in water seps. for air lines would likely be a good choice.

    Nice work on the system though. Very well done.

    Lee


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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeWay View Post
    Just an FYI on this. It has been my experience that Kool Mist 77 will deteriorate Polycarbonate. It will make it crack, craze and become very brittle. It isn't supposed to do that, but I have seen it happen several times.

    I would certainly check on the plastic type of the vessel and steer away from Kool Mist 77 or 78.
    Metal or glass like what you see in water seps. for air lines would likely be a good choice.

    Nice work on the system though. Very well done.

    Hmmm, good info....something to keep in mind but for me it doesn't come into play. PET Softdrink bottles are polyethylene (Polyethylene terephthalate) and I use isopropyl alcohol ..... as someone on this forum said, the place will smell like a distillery.....well, well, coming to think of it, I do believe overproof white rum is cheaper here

    Norbert


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    Quote Originally Posted by MaNo View Post
    Hmmm, good info....something to keep in mind but for me it doesn't come into play. PET Softdrink bottles are polyethylene (Polyethylene terephthalate) and I use isopropyl alcohol ..... as someone on this forum said, the place will smell like a distillery.....well, well, coming to think of it, I do believe overproof white rum is cheaper here
    Lol good call MaNo. I just found one of those big dollar store Arizona Iced tea bottles and decided to use that. The cap is much larger in diameter than soda bottles. I am actually going to machine a cap instert with aluminum fittings on it.

    How does alcohol work as your coolant? I just bought some Slugger cutting fluid to try it out ... but i am curious why you chose alcohol and what are the performance advantages over oil based coolant? Besides leaving a cleaner surface for welding later



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    I would warn against it. Alcohol is a fire hazard. In my flood coolant system, it can develop an air bubble or spit and sputter at times. During that time if I am running full speed, the end mill can glow cherry red almost instantly.
    Definitely hot enough to ignite alcohol. I would not even consider it.
    When I run my face mil, it can be under full flood and still throw sparks depending on what it's cutting.

    Lee


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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeWay View Post
    I would warn against it. Alcohol is a fire hazard. In my flood coolant system, it can develop an air bubble or spit and sputter at times. During that time if I am running full speed, the end mill can glow cherry red almost instantly.
    Definitely hot enough to ignite alcohol. I would not even consider it.
    When I run my face mil, it can be under full flood and still throw sparks depending on what it's cutting.
    Lee, I wouldn't dream of using alcohol with iron or steel or whatever could produce sparks. I am doing mainly alu.

    To answer dogmeatk' question.... I never used alcohol before (as a coolant, I mean ) but so far it works well and the work area around machine remain kinda clean. Mind you, Lee's warning should be borne in mind. High rate of evaporation hence cooling was the main reason for trying alcohol. It doesn't mean that I will continue using it.

    My main concern right now is the possible removal of lubricants of the machine mechanism itself. I have yet to make a cover for the Y leadscrew. Furthermore, I wonder about corrosion. My little Sherline is still relatively new but in our environment (salt air) most plain steel parts look at least 5 years old despite the fact that I periodically spray WD40 on them. So, will the alcohol remove it as fast as I spray it on?

    A machinist here uses kerosene only (on aluminium) although not in a mister (brush only) and some hobbyists I know in Europe use soy oil. I will try that too plus I will try soy/kerosene mix and soy/alcohol. If or when I find Kool Mist 77 locally, I will give that a try too.

    Bear in mind that my mill is a little 2010 Sherline so my projects are small too. That little tiny nozzle (made from a ballpoint refill) doesn't use a massive volume of coolant. Although it constantly sprays out miniscule droplets, I am totally amazed as to how little coolant it uses.

    Last edited by MaNo; 01-22-2013 at 01:59 PM.
    Norbert


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How I built a fog-less coolant mister