"smart" 4 axis CAM?

[dharmic]

Hi folks

With a new toolplate, touch probe and the ability to get a bit finer control out of my machine I'm wanting to get a little more adventurous.

Background:

Ages ago I made a couple of these novelty holders for chilli extract (it's home made, insanely hot, giggle to bring out when a few other mates who like a bit of heat come out and start bragging). It's about 50mm high and 26mm dia. Photo is of a rough one, haven't deburred and had a gouge in it needed polishing out.



These were made out of some tube for the middle, some thin tube for the columns and some rod stock for the ends and cap. Mostly in the lathe using the router to pocket holes in the end caps for the rods and the 4A on the router to pocket the windows in the central tube.

Ignoring the cap, I'd now like to try cutting down the billet to the external radius, boring out the core and facing the top in the lathe, but doing the remainder on the 4th axis. I can kinda see how I can get most of it using a 6mm then 2mm endmill, a 3mm ball mill and a sharp pointed engraving bit (maybe 10º) to get in behind the columns.

Question (finally):

I've used this exercise as a bit of a test case against a few trials of CAM software and, frankly, have been disappointed. Unlike 2.5A or 3A "adaptive path" or "HSM" roughing strategies, everything I've seen so far gets a sudden attack of the stupid when you throw in a 4th axis. Yes, I can get them to do it. But it involves a lot of manual intervention: often literally sketching in the toolpath I want then going back and defining the tool axis where it needs to be different.

I'm a little sad about that, Zoners. For what some of these companies want me to spend on their 4 or 5A continuous CAM packages, they don't seem to be actually saving me a great deal of time over just hand cutting the g code. (this is an exaggeration but you get the point).

So I'm curious now. Has anyone come across a CAM package that would make this job easy?

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[KH0UJ]

Well on my opinion sir google Sketchup 8 will make that so much easy even on a 4 axis, line programming will make that a breeze and it`s free, no cost at all, I can make a CAM on your sample pic in 5 minutes or less, that includes tool change on-the-fly (depends on your machine set-up though) just pause, Z-up turn OFF the spindle, change or re sharpen tool bit then back again, that`s what I did on an entire 1911 parts (whole gun) and AR15`s it`s free but you need to practice on it coupled with a correct free plug-ins to make a CAM work very fast and convenient

Side Note: on a custom CAM on metals I guess it`s easier for the job to have a 24 inch monitor (1080p) since you cannot almost see the 0.2mm gap between lines, but on a 1080p big monitor you can still zoom and see the gaps for easy clicking.

[dharmic]

Thanks Khouj. Gotta say I'm not particularly tempted by the thought of doing anything more taxing than a furniture or garden layout in sketchup, let alone CAD/CAM. Good on you for bending it to your will, though

I'd be interested to see a 5 minute or less video of you building up the toolpath for that job, though, if you can spare 5 minutes sometime

[daniellyall]

Fusion will do that easily if it's a native fusion file, if it's not maybe/maybe not, post a file I will have a run at it.

[dharmic]

Cheers. I'm first to admit I'm asking a bit much of a UI to let me do this fresh into an environment, be great if it worked though. Will try and export a STEP file if Fusion can bring that in?

[dharmic]

Here you go. Created a step file, imported it into fusion and saved that out too so the zip has both. Please don't waste any time on it, but if you have an idle moment and know how to click what buttons to get Fusion (for example) to do the hard work, I'd really appreciate a pointer

[daniellyall]

I have done it already 30 mins all done a non newbee an hour to complete, I can post the file if you have access to fusion here's a link to what I did A360, still post your file I will Video setting the toolpaths

[dharmic]

QUICK! Thanks @daniellyall

This is how I did the first one (or close enough to it) and yes, as top/barrel/base it's pretty easy.

What I'm trying to do this time around, though, is just drill the centre bore and get the external diameter to size on a piece of solid bar stock, then do everything else as a single operation on the 4th axis. A little bit trickier. I can set it up all manually by defining tool paths and where to change the tool orientation but the point of the thread was to maybe find if there was a CAM package whose 4A was a little smarter than being pretty much limited to engraving on the surface of a cylinder which is about as far as the ones I've seen get before giving up and saying "here's the manual tools. You're on your own now."

[KH0UJ]

Ok let me do it my way sir just got up from an afternoon nap, first I need a tool bit size, and the measurements of the entire model (LXWXH) if you`re like me that`s lazy enough to manual change the tool bit I just use the 3mm all the way

Side note: I cannot post a video though for I have no decent camera here ( im one of the poor guys here that only use a nokia 3310 for taking quality pictures) I can post pictures or screenshots though....

It`s basically the same thing on an AR-15 aluminum rail I made a year ago on a fourth axis, not for the actual gun though but for the airsoft gun

The drawing on sketchup is just flat rectangular object with the length equal to the perimeter of the round piece and the width equal to the whole length of the object being machined, it will be rounded with the help of a G-code wrapping software

[dharmic]

Model is included earlier. Play with the tools you'd use mate, it's more the process and principles than an end product I'm after. I think you'll need an acute V bit to get the backs of the columns and the face of the centre tube behind the columns, between the windows. If the columns end up a bit tear shaped that's fine but I'm after as close to a circular centre tube perimeter as possible.

Have fun!

[daniellyall]

That's the easy way what fusion has no issues with doing. fusion is not quite there yet to be able to do the cam under an Hour with the columns, you can if you know most of the tricks but the columns would look like crap, If they were added later easy as mud it's the columns doing it with fusion, feature mill or one of the high end cam programs like that would do it but that's plus 5k a year.

I will try in fusion for the fum of it.

[KH0UJ]

It will be like this sir on the sketchup environment, I just widowed on the sizes though

[dharmic]

You guys are champions going at this like you have!

KHOUJ - here's the problem, squire, your approach (interchange Y and A) doesn't allow for offset undercuts. Those columns sit proud of the centre, with a small gap between

[KH0UJ]

No sir I dont need to switch Axis on the hardware, I just wrap the code to a G-Code wrapper, A = 360

Sorry I forgot to state that I zero my tool bit on the material itself, any issue on the hatches getting slant is a mis aligned centering of the bit

[daniellyall]

KHOUJ you can do the exact same thing with fusion 360 standard, it's not continuous so there will be undercutting by a degree or 2 under the columns

dharmic it looks like crap doing it with the columns in fusion, when they add continuous into fusion it would work as you would do it as a mesh, until then big $$$$ or do the columns separate then it's easy as. And I said it would be easy not.