Gouge Help - Page 3


Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 57 of 57

Thread: Gouge Help

  1. #41
    Member cadcam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    3578
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    QUOTE:"We all know this one." Do we?

    I would think so. As for that I don't know any programmer that is 100% on the money and never make a cut wrong or do I know of an operator that never say example picks up the part and forgets to offset for the edge find by the Dia.

    Or maybe forgot to touch a tool correctly..

    I know sense I have been in the buss I have at least made one of these..

    This what meant just incase you thought I was stating some thing diffrent.

    JM2C

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Cadcam
    Turning Product Specialist for a Software Company, contract Programming and Consultant , Cad-Cam Instructor of Mastercam .


  2. #42
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    ontario, canada
    Posts
    103
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Tom,

    When one of your axis stalls, you will hear a screaming noise coming from the stepper. The axis position will continue to show a change on your screen but the axis will remain stationary, with the stepper making a loud racket. As balsaman says, an assist spring is almost a sure fire way to cure this if it’s due to a heavy Z axis. You might also want to reduce the acceleration speed and check for any binding in the travel when the stepper is physically disconnected from the drive screw.

    Steve

    www.tac-pro.com



  3. #43
    Registered balsaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2139
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    You generally can't hear the stepper skipping because of the racket from the router.

    Eric

    I wish it wouldn't crash.


  4. #44
    Member cadcam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    3578
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I have question along with this how are you getting the code in to the machine?

    1) you are downloading to the control.

    2) DNC from a floppy

    3) Dnc from a computer being Drip fedding the control.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Cadcam
    Turning Product Specialist for a Software Company, contract Programming and Consultant , Cad-Cam Instructor of Mastercam .


  5. #45
    Registered balsaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2139
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    His controller is a PC so I am sure it's right off the HDD. What software? Mach 1?

    Eric

    I wish it wouldn't crash.


  6. #46
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    ontario, canada
    Posts
    103
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Ok, maybe the screaming was me.
    As an aside, the Makita router on my machine is very quiet, for a router. I'll bet you can't hear it running as I type this.

    Steve

    www.tac-pro.com



  7. #47
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    2103
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I think I saw in another thread he is running Ability Systems for windows with their g-code converter. I have run the earlier version of this software for dos for yrs and have been able to make parts and do them with good repeatability. Since I have been running steppers all this time the only time I have seen a gouge like this is when the z did not move in the positive. I don't think losing steps would all of a sudden make the z stay down like that but it would be an slow unseen and un-noticed process. I have run 3d gunstock parts using the old LPT indexer software and when the program is finished I will do a reposition to my program starting point and the machine will be several steps off in all three axis but I cannot tell it by looking at the part. When the z head doesn't come up when told to I notice it right away!!

    turmite

    No greater love can a man have than this, that he give his life for a friend.


  8. #48
    Registered balsaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2139
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    With steppers when you start loosing steps, you end up skipping the acceleration, once the stepper stops, it stalls until the next move, when it can accelerate again. I had it a few times on my machine when it would lose a few steps then stall.

    Eric

    I wish it wouldn't crash.


  9. #49
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    176
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Wow guys ..... what a thread I started...

    Jay - I am working on a home made router - look under my screen name in home made routers on this website.

    Yes its stepper driven.

    I am using a 220 OZ IN on my Z - I am going to order a new one Tuesday - a 470 Oz - In.....Same as my X, and Y axis.

    MAYBE I have my accel rates too high also ? Im set at 80 IPM accel
    Start speed is 20
    ?????

    Hey what are you talking about a counter balance thing ?? Explain please......

    Thanks

    Tom

    PS - HU, Ill send ya the NC file today (Monday)



  10. #50
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    ontario, canada
    Posts
    103
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Tom,

    I have a 191 oz./in. lifting my 40 lb. Z axis without any problem ( http://www.tac-pro.com/images/router.jpg ). The design of my Z axis is similar to your’s. Since Z axis moves are typically very small compared to X and Y, the Z speed and acceleration can be much lower than X and Y so as not to tax the stepper.

    A counter balance is a weight used to “neutralize” the weight of the Z axis just like the counterweight on elevators. You can attach a cable to your Z axis and loop the cable up and over the gantry using a pulley system. A weight at the end of the cable will counter the weight of the axis.

    Steve

    www.tac-pro.com



  11. #51
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    176
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Steve -

    I still dont get why its stalling though because I already had it set at a much slower accel, run, and rapid speed - you say you have no problem...

    QUESTION ? How warm do steppers usually get under heavy use ? Mine was very warm, border hot.

    I think I am still going to use a bigger stepper - since Ill be cutting very large parts with heavy Z usage, I think Ill end up needing it and Chris with DATA-CUT told me that I may need a larger stepper on the Z - Anyone else have a thought ?

    Thanks guys - All your help is GREATLY appreciated.

    Tom



  12. #52
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    ontario, canada
    Posts
    103
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Just discovered an interesting phenomenon. I had generated a file in VisualMill and gave it a name to save to floppy. After starting the cut and realizing I had forgotten to set the machine zero, I went back to VisualMill, changed the machine zero and saved the file to floppy using the same file name. It appears that the previous file with the same name had not been written over completely. All the leftover code had translated into unwanted machine movement, ruining the part.
    D’oh
    Lesson: Change file name for resave or completely delete the previous file to save with the same name.



  13. #53
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    332
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Apples and Oranges

    Don't expect your z axis to work the same as another machine. There is more than just the motor torque. Thread pitch on the screw, is it a ball screw or threaded rod, what kind of linear bearings, how much drag, do you have pulley reduction or mutliplication?
    220 oz is pushing the small end of the spectrum.

    I left my machine on overnight and the motors were barely warm to the touch, and they don't idle during a hold position. However, the temp you think is "hot" may not be relevant. My motors are rated to 236F (boiling water is 212) which means no damage under 236. Still too hot to touch.

    My minimum start speed is 7 inches per minute, with a 100,000 steps/sec/sec accel rate.

    Also, can you check your delay times for your gecko drivers? Are they adjustable? I have more problems with failing to change direction and missed steps due to short delay times, than with setting the step rate too high.



  14. #54
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    176
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Ill have to look into the gecko 201 specifications to see about the delay setting and if I need to look at it.

    I still think using the larger motor would be a huge help.
    By the way - I have a 1/2 lead screw, with a Kerk Anti Back nut.
    20 tooth pully on motor, 30 tooth on the screw

    Anyway - Im cutting right now - a sign for my kids...... Im having no problems at all with the Z and Y and have a dial indicator clamped to my frame and even after running a few parts getting a return to dead zero but I have not checked the Z yet. I would assume that It was fine until the 'stall' because the part was perfect.....

    INTERESTING about the visual Mill problem. I am finding a lot of things I do not like about Visual Mill. It is very particular about files, and after scaling files I get a lot of wierd things going on.... I dont know what OneCNC costs but I may take a HARD look at buying it after reading all the good stuff about it on this forum......

    Do you know when VM5 is due out ?? I d like to try a demo of it to see it. I read it will cost 3-4k - at that price no way for me - Ill get OneCNC unless I REALLY like the Ver 5.... but cant see it costing that much based on what I have seen so far using this program.....

    Tom



  15. #55
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    176
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Guys........

    I called an ordered a 470 Oz-In Stepper (Sanyo Denki) from Micro Kinetics today..... I did a lot of emailing and calling today and considering your input it seems that yes its a stall..... probobly from heavy duty cycly... so considering it made it 80 percent of the way through the file before stalling, a 470 replacement for the 220 should be plenty enough......

    I also talked to Art at Ability Systems and asked about pulse rates etc, velocity (all that junk that Im still figurin out) that wasnt my problem. Indexer V.5.4 looks ahead so far and adjust pulse/velocity/direction its not a problem (to keep it really simple)

    Anyway - Thanks for your help......



  16. #56
    Registered
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    ontario, canada
    Posts
    103
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Tom,

    It just occurred to me that if your Z axis was stalling, the cutter Z position would not return to it’s original height after the stall. The height of all surfaces machined after the stall would be reduced by the amount of Z height change.

    Unless you stopped the machining process immediately after the gouge, I would venture to say that your gouge is caused by a code aberration.

    Steve



  17. #57
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    176
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Steve

    I aborted the program...... after having a few people look at the code and all agree the code was fine, and talking to Art at Ability Systems, MAaurice at Gecko - I have motor stall...... there are a few chances it could be something else but everything is pointing to stall................ So I ordered a 470 Oz In to replace the 220



Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Gouge Help

Gouge Help