Need Help!- re Spindle Lube and Lube Pump

[robkuhi]

Gents
I just got a 1991 Journeyman 325. Nice big brute compared to a Bridgeport, but the manuals are not totally informative. I cannot find anything about lubing the spindle. How is this done? I see that the auto lube goes to the quill, but do not think that does the spindle.
Second question - What controls the auto-lube pump? No info on that either. There is no manual switch, nothing in the controller that I can find. How do I get it to work? I have checked all the fuses.
Thanks for the help.
Rob

[MechWerks]

I also recently bought a '91 325 Journeyman. There is nothing in the maintenance about lubing the spindle. The oiler only goes to the outer part of the spindle for axis motion. Seems I read the spindle bearing were sealed but can not find that info at the moment.

Do an internet search for S3 they do spindle rebuilds for the Tree mills...mentioned quite a few times in the various machine forums for tree repair and parts. Parts and Smarts for the control parts.

It may be best to look up what lube pump you have on your machine. It appears Tree installed a couple different manufactured versions. Most seem to just be timed, where the pump is activated and a spring loaded plunger is lifted, then takes a while to pump through lube meters (brass hexes at distribution block and at Z axis). Some actually have built in timers. It is pretty easy to follow down the curcuit in the box.

Keep in mind that these things are a few years old and some stuff may have changed over the years...as I am finding out. Still trying to figure out why a #10 labled terminal is laying in the bottom of one box and a blue wire on teh controller has a cut end on it....??

[robkuhi]

Thanks for the info. I'll call 3S and try to find out more about my spindle. I'll feel better if I know for sure.
Took the lube pump apart. There is a little timer motor that lifts a spring loaded plunger through a set of gears driving a cam. The the oil is pumped on the down stroke by the spring loaded plunger. Cycle is quite long maybe 30 minutes. My problem was that the spring loaded plunger was stuck in the up position so no oil got pumped. This 325 sat in a warehouse for a while before I got it, so the thing needed a cleaning, Between the pump and the distribution lines there is a small round tank which turned out to be a filter. Cleaned that too.
Another little mystery -- Between the two electrical cabinets, on the power cabinet is a toggle switch, which does not seem to do anything. Do you know what it is for? Again, nothing in the books. It is a normally closed spring return, so it would open a circuit when it is actuated. Perhaps it is a reset for something???
I have electrical drawings, sheets 1 to 8 and 11. Do you have 9 and 10 or any other numbers?

[MechWerks]

I am not sure of the purpose of the odd switch either. Sheet 3 about mid page off the 24V transformer there is a cabinet disconnect circuit (door switch). It says "Shunt Trip" as part of that interlock system...guessing a reset at this point but didn't have a chance to chase wire 110 to the device is is showing on the drawing.
I have some large format drawings 1-8 and 11 (must be a typical provision according to what I have seen with other owners). Then I have some fax copies which seem to be reductions of the larger ones but there are a few extra pages...haven't had time to relate the fax to large drawings but they seem duplicated in most cases. At least the wires are numbers well and pretty decent to track down. I have a picture somewhere that shows about 7 manuals that normally come with these machines. I have the maintenance book and a photo copy of the user guide...I imagine there is a lot more info in other books I do not have.

[MechWerks]

I tore my Showa lube pump down yesterday for a basic cleaning and also the filter and meters...oil flow seemed proper and everything has oil on it but the reservoir and filter had some trash in it.

The Showa has a slow motor that worm drives a cam. The cam lifts a pump (that is adjustable for stroke/volume) and the pump fills to the filter and finally the Z distribution block and table meters block. Haven't timed the pump cycle but it just appears to be something that runs on it's own and adjustment is purely a function of setting at the pump plunger.

[Michael M]

I have the Showa pump on mine. I try to remember to pull the plunger up if the machine has sat for a long time between uses so as to give it a head start. You should have a low level alarm on the pump that will stop the machine from running until you fill the pump tank back up with Vactra 2. The pump lubes the saddle/table ways and also runs up to the head. IIRC in the head it splits and services both the spindle and the Z ball screw.

There is a mention in the manual about periodically greasing the splines on the quill. I bought a tube of Mobil Mobilith AW2 for that as it is recommended in the manual. Go to Z home, take off the quill cover up top, and wipe off the old grease and smear on some fresh. AW2 is also shown for the knee screw and X and Y axis bearings. It does say that if there are no grease fittings for the axis bearings they are pregreased and don't need extra lube.

cheers,
Michael

[MechWerks]

I have the X / Y zerks...still trying to figure out what Mobilux #46 grease may be...

Funny the way mfg. pick a brand/model of lube instead of a defining number.

[Michael M]

One of my manuals doesn't say anything about a Mobilux. Either Vactra2, DTE#26 or Mobilith AW-2 are the three lubricants mentioned, with the AW-2 being used on any grease fittings.

The other shows Vactra 2, DTE 26, Mobliux #46 for the X&Y axis bearings, and Mobilux #2 for the spindle spline and other grease points.

They may have changed the name as all the Mobilux references I can find are to Mobilux EP followed by 0-111

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...Mobilux_EP.asp

The AW-2 may be OK to use on yours since it appears that what you use may depend on what manual you happened to get for your machine.

cheers,
Michael

[MechWerks]

The #46 appears to be the stuff used in typical ball bearing applications and a bit thinner than #2 grease...less filler? Have seen similar used in air tool bearings. Anyway, sent a message to Mobil and will see what they say about the apparently expired product.

[Michael M]

Steve, how can you determine which manual recommendation to use?

Both of my manuals are titled "Journeyman 325 Installation, power-on, operation & maintenance". Neither one has a publication date or revision number, and they are slightly different in content.

Unless you can definitely say "this manual recommendation applies to my machine and that one doesn't" it seems like you may as well just use whichever recommmended grease that is easiest to get, which is the AW2.

cheers,
Michael

[robkuhi]

The lube pump sends the oil through a sintered metal filter to a small manifold to the points to be oiled. To distribute the oil, each point of application has a fitting which has a restriction. This restriction consists of a tiny pin in a hole with a 10 micron clearance. This allows the oil pressure from the spring loaded piston in the pump to force oil out of each point very slowly and get oil to all the points.
Simple cheap system, but because of the 10 micron clearance, it is easily plugged up by microscopic dirt, sludge and any kind of contaminants. The restrictions are not cleanable and will need to be replaced at about $15 each. The filter element costs about twice that.
The system I have described is a Bijur, but the others are probably similar and parts may even be interchangeable.
So, important thing is to keep the system very clean, especially the filter and anything downstream.
Took me a bit of time to figure this out, so hope it is useful

[MechWerks]

Mobil replied to my inquiry regarding Mobilux #46 ... seems they don't even have any references to that product, not for a long time and maybe not in this country. Also indicated that machine manufacturers often reference lube in their manuals that is no longer available...some new machines listing lube products 30 years out of production.

Anyway...Mobil recommended Mobilgrease XHP 222 for the annular bearings on the ballscrews.
Already using Hangsterfer's #2 in the pump for the ways. (similar to Mobil Vactra 2)
An AW2 grease should be good on the spindle splines.

FWIW...my installation manual did have the machines "Certificate of Quality" stuck in it. Guess it makes no difference if the lube products are out of production.