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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Nobody got a tip on the oil? Should really order a can before christmas so I can run the machine some during the vacation.. I followed some of the oil lines now and some goes to the linear guided rails but it's hard to see if anything goes into the gearbox since it's a lot of covers in that area.



    Today the memory arrived. Was really curious to see of this worked out. I took a fresh backup of NC and PMC parameters, installed the chips while battery powered and started the machine again. The parameters didn't drop and I was good to go on inceasing to 160M (equivalent of 60KB file) but when I tried 320M it just reset the parameter back to the smallest mem option. Tried loading it over serial but still it was a no go. Then I started to think about the chip install again. I was really carefull but one of the chips kinda slipped over "1 pin" off so it might have gotten in contact with the wrong pins. I removed that "set" of chips again, started up and I had still 60KB of working memory. Seems like I killed the chip... Next time I will pull the battery while doing this to be 100% sure I don't mess up anything! I ordered 2x new chips.

    Could it be that my machine is delivered without Macro program in the ladder? I have been trying to enable the parameter but it's a no go. Last time I tried now I set the parameters in the file and uploaded it over serial but it resets back after rebooting the machine like it doesn't accept the parameter change.


    I also got the chance to visit a CNC workshop today as I was lucky enough to get some POM for test running. Looks like nice chunks to run in. The alu will be after I get control running POM. I might just make some 3d printer parts out of it to have it as a project. Still missing the vice and clamp set tho so I won't be running anything before I can fix it properly to the table.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-817afb96-a3ad-41bf-b0ff-a208699d8f69-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_0635-jpg  


  2. #42
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Started today with getting my machine down from the pallet it was resting on since transportation. It took 3 hours fiddling around and getting it down. It was due to lack of space and that I wanted to be carefull not to tip over the machine that I used as much time as I felt I needed considering every move. I used a pipe inside the frame and moved it slowly down to the concrete flor using wooden blocks to do it safe. Somebody with the correct equipment and knowledge would prolly pull it off in 10 minutes.



    And since we have -10C (14Fahrenheit) outside these days I had to insulate better. I was using 24kWh per day maintaing 7-10C inside and in the long run that's going to be expensive. As I had to take my sedan shopping the other day I only got a few plates with me of these XPS sheets. Will grab more later and do the whole room. They have good insulating capabilities and I can glue them straight to the concrete walls. No probelm with mold or damp concrete walls either. I will need to glue a plate into them when I'm done with the room but first priority is to cover the walls.



    This oil problem I can't really figure out. Again I tried following the lines and they lead to the screws/rails from what I can tell. I didn't see a gearbox but I'm not 100% sure where to look. Manual claims speed reduction gearbox but I cannot figure out where it sits. It also doesn't mention the rails and it has no info on what oil I should put on this pump. I got a tip on a facebook page to use ATF oil but when googling that many advice against it because the coolant washes it off easily. Am I overthinking this when I want to find out what oil to use? ATF I got loads off so that would be the simplest but if 68 oil is the right thing then I'd ofc get that instead.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-img_0646-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_0655-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_0657-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_0664-jpg  

    Kira VTC 30-img_0665-jpg   Kira VTC 30-img_0666-jpg  


  3. #43
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Hard to tell, but no on the ATF. Looks like it is mobile DTE light or DTE24 in the sight. Both are pretty common on forced lube linear guides and screws. Dip a screw driver in and feel it. Vac 2 is sticky and somewhat thick.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  4. #44
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    Hard to tell, but no on the ATF. Looks like it is mobile DTE light or DTE24 in the sight. Both are pretty common on forced lube linear guides and screws. Dip a screw driver in and feel it. Vac 2 is sticky and somewhat thick.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    If it was just for the linear guides and screws Iguess I could get away with 68 oil also but this "speed reduction gearing" that is mentioned in the manual is what worries me the most. If it's on the spindle and have parts rotating with 12000rpm I wan't proper lube for it :X I will do the sticky test you proposed and see what I can find out. Thanks.



  5. #45
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Might try calling Bob at Zps, he may have some old info on those.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  6. #46
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    Might try calling Bob at Zps, he may have some old info on those.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    I'll try to send him a email so I disturb him as little as possible Thanks again underthetire!



  7. #47
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Your tip paid off underthetire I also sent a mail to Kira and both confirmed that it was Regular 68 oil. I will order some Hydraway HVXA 68 since my dealer stocks that. They only stock 20liters tho so I will have way oil for as long as I live



  8. #48
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Today my vice and clamping tools arrived. I made a test tiece in POM and setup cam in fusion 360 after mounting and adjusting the vice. I don't have a proper tool to adjust the vice, but I did the best I could with the dial gauge I had. It looked ok for a testrun in the end.

    The CAM output worked great if I'm allowed to say that. I ran a testrun in air first after setting G54 to the bottom corner of the stationary jaw on the vice and it measured up all good. Then I ran the program and the output can be seen in the video below. In Z height it's 18.00mm and perfect but X axis measured 75.5mm and Y axis 75.2mm. I'm not sure what happend there since both should be 75.00. I rechecked the CAM output in simulation by noting down the X/Y position and adjusting for the diameter of the tool and it should give 75mm. I did not check the G Code. Could there be this crazy amount of backlash?

    Another thing. The program failed on 2d adaptive before I went into the 900 parameters and enabled 3 axis movement. Could this be a problem if the machine isn't built for it? Can I ruin servo driver cards or run the servos with to low voltage if it's not rated for 3 axis moving?



    Last edited by m1n1m; 12-21-2017 at 08:16 PM.


  9. #49
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Not going to hurt anything. They came as drill tap centers so some were just never optioned. As far as the off size thing, that would be a lot of backlash, you would even hear clunking as the servo reversed. Check and see if you have wear offsets and if anything is in there.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  10. #50
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Ok, watched the video. That x axis sounds rough! Without going through everything, did you replace the thrust bearings? Once you get a decent indicator, you can check for backlash. If you did replace the thrust bearings, backlash can be a real issue, as the new universal grind bearings tend to run about .0012 smaller in width than the old matched set bearings.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  11. #51
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    The X axis has a bit rough sound when it moves in one direction I’ve noticed that to. I didn’t replace any bearings but it wouldn’t surprise me if the bearings for the X ballscrew is shot because the tray below the bed was full of water due to clogged drain in the tray. That was the reason for the X Servo beeing full of water to I think. Could it be the thrust bearing when the noise is just when moving in one direction?

    I did find the reason for the error I think. I ran a 3mm deep cut straight through the block and my 12mm endmill made a 11.8 wide cut. It must have been grinded? I assume that I should get a 12mm wide cut from it. If it’s 0.2mm less then it explains some of the error.



  12. #52
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    underthetire's ears are good Today I adjusted cutter diameter in my cam software for a testrun and ran the program cutting of the box I had and lowering the Z height. It was 0.1mm difference in X and Y axis so I figured that I should measure backlash.

    I don't have tools for setting the dial in a BT30 holder and measuring it sideways like some do but I used what I had. The magnetic stand was fixed to the Z axis and I adjusted the stand as good as I could. Prolly not the correct way but it gives an indication. Any suggestions are welcome if it's stupid. So when I measured in the orientation of the X axis (as in the picture below) I measured 5mm movement within 0.02mm roughly all the way in 0.1mm steps. When I turn back 0.1mm in the other direction it moves only 0.1mm and if I move back one full mm it indicates roughly 0.1mm backlash. When doing the same in Y axis I get 0.02/0.03mm and that's not to bad? I should add that if I try to move the bed by hand pushing it I can only move it 0.02mm in both X/Y. The X axis I need to address since it has way to much backlash to be usable. Is there any easy way to take out the thrust bearing to check if it's that or the ballscrew bearing that's shot? I really hope it's not the ballscrew as I suspect that is a pretty expensive item to replace. Are these bearings installed with adjustable preload?



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-kira-1-1-jpg  


  13. #53
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Adjustable preload, not usually. I don't remember the last time I did a kira. Easy way to tell is put a ball bearing held in the center drill mark on the ballscrew with grease. Place indicator on the ball bearing parallel to the X axis, and move the table with the mpg. Your looking to see if the ballscrew is shifting in the X axis. Any shift at all is no good, and even a small amount will be amplified by the ballscrew pitch and show a lot on the part.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  14. #54
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by underthetire View Post
    Adjustable preload, not usually. I don't remember the last time I did a kira. Easy way to tell is put a ball bearing held in the center drill mark on the ballscrew with grease. Place indicator on the ball bearing parallel to the X axis, and move the table with the mpg. Your looking to see if the ballscrew is shifting in the X axis. Any shift at all is no good, and even a small amount will be amplified by the ballscrew pitch and show a lot on the part.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
    Hmm. I'm not sure I understand that description. English is not my first language so it might be it. Why do I need a ball bearing and grease? Should I measure the end of the ballscrew with the dial and see if it moves back/forth when I move the axis with the manual wheel?



  15. #55
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Quote Originally Posted by m1n1m View Post
    Hmm. I'm not sure I understand that description. English is not my first language so it might be it. Why do I need a ball bearing and grease? Should I measure the end of the ballscrew with the dial and see if it moves back/forth when I move the axis with the manual wheel?
    The ball helps, as the end of the ballscrew is not totally flat. Without the bearing, you will be trying to measure end play, and get error from the non square/flat surface of the ballscrew as you turn it.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  16. #56
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    ok. I will open up the opposite end of the servo motor and see if I understand what you mean. I don't quite understand how I should attach a bearing to the ballscrew and where the grease comes into this. Also should I place the dial paralelle to the X axis? I thought I wanted to check if the whole screw moved back/forth on the X axis (backlash in the bearings holding the screw) so I would have to set it 90 degrees to the end of the ballscrew?



  17. #57
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Thick grease holds the bearing, think removable glue. Indicator travel has to be parallel to the X, you want to measure end play. The end of the ballscrews should have a small center drill right in the center on the end, this is where you want to "glue" the ball bearing in. Place indicator tip on ball bearing.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  18. #58
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Is this a typical setup where the bearings and backlash are accounted for at the motor end and the screw is "floating" in the oposite end in the X axis?

    http://xslrobot.com/ball_series/support.html



  19. #59
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    Probably on a small machine like that, a parts list would show it. Like I said, can't remember the last one I worked on, nor the last time I even saw one still running.

    Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk



  20. #60
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    Default Re: Kira VTC 30

    ok. Will open it up one day and see if I can take some pictures and see if there is any numbers. I don't have a parts list for the machine.

    Any size of ballbearing? With great danger of making a fool of myself, is this what you mean? I can't find any pictures or sketches of this method when googling it and I'm not sure I understand how I can avoid the uneven end of the ballscrew but just putting a bearong onto it. I would need to hold this by hand also I guess since it's not going onto the screw? Won't that make movement on the dial?



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Kira VTC 30-sketch-jpg  


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