Release of Duality Lathe

[Tormach]

Tormach has a new product online. On the web site, under the products tab, we have the Duality Lathe page. We have available for your review:

1. Product Datasheet
2. Overview video (warning : high resolution version is 200 meg)
3. Design analysis
4. June/July purchase note.

We do not yet have the operator’s manual. The lathes are in stock and we are taking orders, but we will delay shipping until we get the operator’s manual done. We’re estimating about 2 weeks from now. The manual will come pretty complete, with example procedures in both SprutCAM and TurboCAD/CAM.

SprutCAM comes in Universal, Expert, and Master versions. The SprutCAM we sell is a special OEM release of Master. It’s the highest level and supports BOTH lathe and milling operations. Until now people may have wondered why they are offered a lathe & mill CAM with their mill. I think the release of the Duality Lathe answers that question.

TurboCADCAM, our other main CAM offering, also includes lathe CAM and has for some time. While developing example routines for the Duality Lathe we found a bug in TurboCADCAM threading. We have worked with the TurobCADCAM folks and guided them to resolution of that issue, but the fix is only in their latest release, version 15. Earlier versions work fine for other lathe CAM functions, just not threading.

DEMOSTRATIONS:
We have the Duality Lathe available in our Wisconsin showroom, along with multiple mills and all accessories on display.
We also plan to bring a PCNC 1100 mill and a Duality Lathe for demonstration to the CNC Workshop at Galesburg Il (http://www.cnc-workshop.com/). We’ll be there on Thursday and Friday.

We very recently learned that our patent application has been approved. The product label on the lathe says “Patent Pending” but that’s out of date. Next time we print labels they will have the patent number on them.

Greg Jackson
President
Tormach, LLC
204 Moravian Valley Rd, Suite N
Waunakee, WI 53597-2514
(608) 849-8381, ext 15
www.tormach.com

[youngjim]

It looks very interesting. I am at the just-looking phase personally, but a neatly integrated mill/lathe combination such as this makes a lot of sense.

[justgary]

A very interesting solution. I don't actually have my PCNC 1100 yet, but I have already thought of a jillion things to do with it when I do get one (which I'm hoping will be within two months; I'm still hung up on what CNC software to buy). The one thing I didn't think of is bolting my little Atlas 6" lathe to the mill bed. The motor would be a bit of an issue, but I really like the thought.

Great work, Tormach!

- Just Gary

[twocik]

Looks like my 9 x 20 lathe setup on the Tormach.

Great idea !! Can't wait to see the machine clips.

[Cairns]

The documentation mentions that it can cut threads, and I'm wondering how this is accomplished. Is the drive motor for the lathe a servo/stepper?

[philbur]

The documentation explains all. Its a once per revolution spindle sensor that provides synchronisation input to the software for control of the X and Z axis. There is no computer controlled spindle speed or position.

Phil

The documentation mentions that it can cut threads, and I'm wondering how this is accomplished. Is the drive motor for the lathe a servo/stepper?

[fastlanecafe]

Looks like this is a company with its sights set on the home shop market. This may be a mis step however, as the whole concept requires 2 men to lift the lathe on and off, or some sort of forklift and room to maneuver it. Using an entire lathe adds a lot of un necessary stuff to the idea. An old machinist friend of mine did a similar thing using just a headstock and tailstock off a lathe. Both were machined and keyed to be parallel in the horizontal and vertical plains and 1 guy could lift the pieces onto the mill table. For short work, the tailstock part was not even necessary. No need for the bedways, carriage, cross slide, compound, gearbox etc. under CNC the power feed and threading is all electronic.

[youngjim]

An old machinist friend of mine did a similar thing using just a headstock and tailstock off a lathe. Both were machined and keyed to be parallel in the horizontal and vertical plains and 1 guy could lift the pieces onto the mill table.

I was thinking of a similar setup. Any chance of photos?

[keen]

Hats off to the duality design team! - so good to see logical creative thinking put into action!

I been mulling it over all weekend. my biggest concern is the diameter accuracy limitation.

Gregs very fine design analysis explains well the machines limitations. Including Z movement accuracy. The mill is I suspect at best repeatable in the Z to +/ - 0.001. I tried to set mine closer but found it was at the expense of the z gib adjustment . A neatly adjusted Z gib gives to much friction and had to be backed off to allow better Z height repeatability - it is a comprimise.

0.001 thou is bearable for most milling - But with turning that means dia +/ - 0.002. and if the z trust bearings are not set at optimum, or if the slide is a little too looose or tight - or eventually when the Z ball nuts/screw wears...... (do they?) you could end up with a a z that is +/ - 0.002 between up and down movement repeatability.

I suspect that may be reality for many Tormachs out there ? If so that means + /- 0.004 on dia...............

I don't think a more accurate 'one direction' reapeatability can always be relied on to avoid the issue. A I suspect diffrent diameters will be formed by eg. a down movement on the smallest diameter, and a up movement on the largest? - if so the z backlash error/variable is exposed.

I may be being pessamistic about this. Maybe most Tormach Z accuracy and repeatabilty is more like +/- 0.0005 or better? And if the cuts are in the same (down or up) movement direction the reapeatablity may be better still. So once the diameter is turned/measured/ and entered, the other Z movements could then be better than 0.0005 - which is plus or minus 0.001 on diameter.

[300sniper]

how does programming it work as far as the axises are concerned? for the lathe, wouldn't the mill's x become the z and the z become the x?

[StormForge]

I'm a very satisfied Tormach mill owner. The duality seems like a neat little setup, especially for occasional, small jobs. The price is certainly right, and if you already own the Tormach mill, the Duality is going to be a much more capable lathe for the price than anything else you could come up with.

That said, I'm somewhat disappointed. The Tormach mill is a real machine that can serve well in a limited production role. The Duality is really too little lathe to be a decent companion machine. The limited dimensions, low power and accuracy, no flood coolant, exposed lead screws, etc... really put the Duality in the "hobbiest" category. Nice, and a bargain for the money, but not in the same class as the mill.

Does anyone know of a CNC lathe that does match the Tormach mill in capability? I'm looking for something in the $10-15K range with professional features, Mach3 support, full coolant, etc... In Tormach's design analysis they say "ballpark cost for a conventional small CNC lathe would be something like $4000 to $4500". Are they talking about bench-top hobby machines retrofitted with a CNC kit?

Cheers,
-Bill

[Tormach]

Agreed; the Duality Lathe is a great value in performance but it does not come to the same level of precision and stiffness as the mill itself. We would not represent it as the ultimate in a small CNC lathe, nor do we expect it to end up in conventional commercial applications, running 8 hour production shifts. It's more like our high speed spindle kit: a great accesssory that can do amazing things for very little money, but with some limitations. As long as people understand the limitations they should be pleased.

There was some comment in the discussion about repeatability and accuracy. As noted in the engineering analysis, it's not better than the mill itself. With careful motion planning and cutting only aluminum I have been able to reproduce parts with better than 0.0004" variation from part to part diameter. No guarantees that such others can get the same results; it's just a point of reference from our testing. As with all machining, the ultimate precision achievable is as much the technique of the operator as it is the machine itself.

There was a message earlier suggesting that it would take two people to mount the lathe. Our video shows one person doing it. It weighs around 90 lbs, about the same as a rotary table.

Greg

I'm a very satisfied Tormach mill owner. The duality seems like a neat little setup, especially for occasional, small jobs. The price is certainly right, and if you already own the Tormach mill, the Duality is going to be a much more capable lathe for the price than anything else you could come up with.

That said, I'm somewhat disappointed. The Tormach mill is a real machine that can serve well in a limited production role. The Duality is really too little lathe to be a decent companion machine. The limited dimensions, low power and accuracy, no flood coolant, exposed lead screws, etc... really put the Duality in the "hobbiest" category. Nice, and a bargain for the money, but not in the same class as the mill.

Does anyone know of a CNC lathe that does match the Tormach mill in capability? I'm looking for something in the $10-15K range with professional features, Mach3 support, full coolant, etc... In Tormach's design analysis they say "ballpark cost for a conventional small CNC lathe would be something like $4000 to $4500". Are they talking about bench-top hobby machines retrofitted with a CNC kit?

Cheers,
-Bill