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About LinkBacksI didn't see a formal intro area, so please move if needed. I just registered here and I have zero machinist experience. I'm leaning toward a Tormach 1100 as it seems like a logical choice over a much older american machine that may need a restore.
I didn't see a formal intro area, so please move if needed. I just registered here and I have zero machinist experience. I'm leaning toward a Tormach 1100 as it seems like a logical choice over a much older american machine that may need a restore.
Last edited by Fish&Chips12; 06-25-2012 at 10:36 PM.
Welcome to the group.
Which machine are you considering? I can't speak to the 770, but I am well versed in the capabilities of the 1100.
If you have any questions or thoughts, don't hesitate to post them here. Someone will have an answer for you.
You can buy good parts or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.
With zero machining experience, you'll be better off learning the basics on a manual mill at much lower cost and risk. After you've got the fundamentals down, then tackle CNC if you decide you still want it or need it. You can do a heck of lot of great maching on a versatile Bridgeport style mill.
Commenters will follow now that disagree with me. Best ignore them.
Mr. Koerner is absolutely right. It has always been my contention that to be any good at CNC, you need to have 10 years on a conventional machine.
You can buy good parts or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.
I don't disagree with the manual machining part. I've looked semi seriously but I get into a "Man if this turns out to be a bad purchase" I'm not going to be happy. My used machine buying research only goes so far as I comb through CL, Practicial Machinist and ebay each day.
I found a descent Monarch 10ee in my area but didn't want a project,couldn't see it under power etc.
Thank you!
I think there’s not much you will learn from manual machining, that is useful in a CNC environment, that you will not learn if you dive directly into CNC. After 10 years of CNC you will be much better at it than someone who has just spent the last ten years on a manual machine. For me there are only three reasons to start out on a manual machine when your goal is CNC.
1) You can’t currently afford a CNC machine.
2) The (from scratch) learning curve looks to steep.
3) You think you’re going to live for ever.
If you can afford it and it doesn’t scare you buy a CNC, because believe me, you are not going to live for ever.
Phil
Last edited by philbur; 06-27-2012 at 02:51 AM.
I have to throw my hat in the go straight to CNC camp. While I agree that some manual machining experience is a wonderful thing, it isn't always practical to go that route. As a hobbyist I only have so many hours a week available. I would be in a box before I got to 10 years equivalent manual machining experience. Sure I break more end mills and chew up vice jaws now and then but they are expendables. In any case if you want to do 3D stuff, manual is a non-starter.
As far as financial risk, Tormachs keep their value quite well. If you buy a machine and sell it 3 years down the road for say 4K less, then it has cost you about $100 a month in rent. That's probably close to what you would pay for cable tv for the same period. Cancel cable because you now have better things to do, and you are even.
bob
I think that there is some advantage to starting with manual machines. You get a feel for things that you cannot get from a CNC. But I cannot recommend that anyone wait a decade before going to CNC. Life is too short.
What I recommend is that you look around at your local community colleges and trade schools, and see if anyone offers a class that you can take to get you started.
Or see if a friend has a milling machine that you can practice on.
If that's not available, then you have another option. Buy an X2 mill with an R8 spindle. Get a used one if you can, to save a few bucks. It will work with the Tormach Tooling System, and is an extremely cheap (inexpensive, and crappy) manual mill.
Mini Mill - 2 Speed Mini Milling Machine
Treat the X2 as a disposable training tool. Practice manual machining on it. It will help you get a feel for manual machining, which you can then apply to your work on the Tormach.
Then put the X2 on Craigslist. Don't ever waste any time or money trying to improve it.
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Vertical Lathe tool holders and more.
Originally Posted by rowbare
CANCEL CABLE, NFW. I have a 37 inch flat screen next to my Tormach. When my machine runs for an hour at a time, I'll watch it. Otherwise it's just on for noise. I hate a quiet shop.
You can buy good parts or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.
First welcome!! I may have done it wrong... But I had no real machining experience when I decided to go with my 1100. While it took some time to learn, I had a blast the entire time outside of those occasional snapped bits.
I'd so jump in, don't expect much going in, work up slow, read and ask lots of questions here and get a food feeds and speeds calculator. Trust me, worth the money. My machining , tool life and cycle times have dropped dramatically after investing in one. I would have 2 years ahead if I bought it earlier!
Either way best of luck.... Lots to learn, but well worth it and a blast... At least for me.
David
I have to agree with David. I have been working/playing with N/C and CNC equipment since I was 20 years old. I'm 68 now and I am still having an absolute blast. I'm going to keep doing it as long as I have fun doing it. I've had my own shop since I was 40 years old (this one is number 4). I have built and sold 2 and the last one I closed due to health issues.First welcome!! I may have done it wrong... But I had no real machining experience when I decided to go with my 1100. While it took some time to learn, I had a blast the entire time outside of those occasional snapped bits.
I'd so jump in, don't expect much going in, work up slow, read and ask lots of questions here and get a food feeds and speeds calculator. Trust me, worth the money. My machining , tool life and cycle times have dropped dramatically after investing in one. I would have 2 years ahead if I bought it earlier!
Either way best of luck.... Lots to learn, but well worth it and a blast... At least for me.
David
When I learned how to do it, the machines were still tape controlled. I told the foremen where I was working I wanted to learn them and he brought me a roll of tape and a book. He told me when I could read the tape and tell him what it was telling the machine to do we would talk about me learning to run the N/C machines. It took me 2 weeks to learn to read the tape. I told the foreman I was ready and he took the roll of tape from me and rolled out a big chunk of it and told me to tell him what it told the machine to do. I did it and I got moved over that afternoon. That was in early 1965.
I told my wife and friends that my retirement party and my funeral are going to be the same day.
You can buy good parts or you can buy cheap parts, but you can't buy good cheap parts.
+1
Jogging gives you a bit of feel (listen, really) for how how well the type of cutter, width of cut, depth of cut, speed, and feed are suited to the material, but manual milling, with hands on handles is a more direct experience.
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