I've decided on a PCNC 770!

[eracer76]

Hello everyone!
I just recently joined and this is my very first post... but Ive been reading the forums for over a year now, and Ive got to say that this site is awesome! In that time Ive been doing a lot of researching and I have finally decided I want to purchase the PCNC 770 within the next month or so.

However, I am completely new to CNC and mills in general for that matter. I am very mechanically inclined though, and also good at custom fabrication, mainly automotive and motorcycle related. Im also very good with electronics and pretty good with computers.

Anyway, I am here looking for some help on making the right decisions on what to buy and how to go about getting started in CNC milling. Im looking to do some prototyping and building/cutting of automotive and motorcycle parts out of aluminum... like extended foot controls for example.

Since I have done a lot of research and video watching over the year, I do know and understand how things work. I also have a pretty good idea of what I want and need, but I would like to hear some advise from the experts if you know what I mean...

So for starters, Ive looked into taking some online courses to teach myself what I need to know, that way I can start using my machine when I get it.
Here is one of the online course sites I was thinking about, and they include a certificate of completion...
CNC services: On-line CNC courses!
Has anyone heard of this site, or think it would worth it for me to take a couple of the beginner courses?

And being I live less then 2 hours from Tormach, Im also seriously thinking about going to their $480 "CNC for Beginners" 2 day workshop class at Tormach...
CNC Mill Workshops | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

My end goal, is to eventually get good enough at using my machine in order to design and build parts I can sell online for a side job... and then possibly use the experience to get a new full time job/career at a CNC machining company.

~Eric

[MetalShavings]

Greetins Eric:

And congratulations on your choice and your work plans.

It seems like the path you've chosen is similar to that of many of the rest of us.

I've put off buying my first Tormach until I get out of school in October. I wanted to take at least one formal CNC class before taking the plunge and buying a CNC mill. I too chose the 770. Mainly because I don't have the room for anything bigger and because my informal research into other mills in the same general size lead me to the Tormach brand.

Best of luck to you.

MetalShavings

[eracer76]

Here is the online shopping cart I started at Tormach to give me an idea of what I need and the cost of everything...

Empty Shopping Cart | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

I know I need the actual cutting tools yet, and thats where I need help choosing what to start out with. I also need to add some kind of CAD/CAM software to the total, but I have no idea what to choose there either.
Ive done some reading on certain CAD/CAM software, but there are so many options, I dont know what to do. lol

Is there anything else I may be missing besides the cutting tools and CAD/CAM?

[MetalShavings]

Hi again Eric:

The shopping cart link you listed will only show your selected items on your computer. To anyone else it will show an empty shopping cart.

I asked myself that same questions when it came to the tools I thought I'd be needing. I'm basically going with the 770 Deluxe package minus a few items that I already own.

I've been using a manual Bench-Top mill and lathe for a few years now so I do have some tooling already that will work on the 770.

As far as CAD/CAM software goes; I'm a Mac computer user so my choices are very limited. I do own a windows based laptop. I bought it so I could test a couple of the PC based softwares out there.

I've had good luck with TurboCAD. Even though I'm more or less self-taught, it seems fairly easy to pick up and work with.

I've tried a couple of "freeware" CAM softwares that I downloaded off the internet that seem to work OK if your parts don't have alot of CNC lines associated with them. I'm still up in the air as to which will work out best for my projects.

One of the more experienced guys on this forum can probably give you a more informed answer to your software questions.

The class I'll be starting next week will be using the GibbsCAM software. It too seems fairly easy to learn but, at the price they're asking for this software (nearly half the price of the 770 mill) it's not likely I'll be buying it for my own personal use, unless I can find a way to legally get this software for a whole lot cheaper.

The parts you plan on making will dictate the tools you'll be needing. Here too, one of the more experienced guys on this forum can answer your questions far better than I can.

Since I mainly work with aluminum stock and some soft steel, I've found that I can get away with using the cheap harbor freight nitride coated end mill set I bought when I initially purchased my bench-top mill and lathe.

I've added various other more expensive bits to that collection over time but I still mainly use those cheapy end mills. If I plan on cutting something harder I buy the appropriate end mill or whatever.

MetalShavings

[Magnum164]

Congratulations on choosing the 770...


You were asking about what end mills to buy. That will completely depend on what you are planning to make and the material. For instance what I make, I have few end mills larger than 1/4".

Also, one thing people forget when talking about doing design and going into business is product liability insurance and the other costs of selling products. Make sure you consider everything if you are planning on selling any products. It will only take on lawsuit for someone to take it all away!

For classes, you can probably find everything you need to know online and in these forums, at least I have Especially if you are mechanically inclined.

[MetalShavings]

Congratulations on choosing the 770...

Also, one thing people forget when talking about doing design and going into business is product liability insurance and the other costs of selling products. Make sure you consider everything if you are planning on selling any products. It will only take on lawsuit for someone to take it all away!

A point well taken but, don't let it scare the ambition out of you.

In our overly-litigious world you could get sued for farting in public and that has nothing to do with designing, making and selling your own products.

I make and sell my stuff on the internet and I've not had any problems. It's just a matter of integrating "Common Sense" into your products and the way you sell them.

I wish you much good fortune.

MetalShavings

[dbrija]

Here is the online shopping cart I started at Tormach to give me an idea of what I need and the cost of everything...

Empty Shopping Cart | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

I know I need the actual cutting tools yet, and thats where I need help choosing what to start out with. I also need to add some kind of CAD/CAM software to the total, but I have no idea what to choose there either.
Ive done some reading on certain CAD/CAM software, but there are so many options, I dont know what to do. lol

Is there anything else I may be missing besides the cutting tools and CAD/CAM?

For CAD/CAM, I use and highly recommend Alibre Design and Sprutcam. Spend the extra $400 and get the "All Posts" version through Tormach.That way you can tweak the post processor, and even use it for other CNC machines down the road. The Tormach only version uses an encrypted Tormach only post. Sprut has a bit of a learning curve, but you won't find anything even close that offers lathe, up tp 5-axis milling, etc... for ~$1500. Lots of good videos and tutorials out there. They even just started an american version of their website http://www.sprutcamamerica.com/.

Same with Alibre. Very good solid modeler for 20% the price of Solidworks (if that much). The two tools work together (you can export directly from Alibre to Sprutcam). You just have to setup a few file options in Alibre to keep inches/cm straight.

[eracer76]

Thanks for all the info guys... When I get on the home computer again in the morning, I'll look more into the end and ball mills. Then I'll try to cut-n-paste my shopping cart. I'll also start doing some more research on the CAD/CAM stuff and check out the ones you guys recommend.

[David Bord]

I started in about the exact same spot you did, for the exact same reasons, with about the same knowledge base. I think your choice is a good one.

I too would recommend Alibre and Sprutcam all posts if you can swing it.

Very powerful software that wont ever limit you...

I would sign up the Tormach training and just learn as you go and take it slow... Its a steep learning curve, but at least for me, incredibly fun and rewarding!

Ive spent over 4 years with my Tormach and wouldnt have changed a thing!

David

[eracer76]

Ok, I think Ive decided to follow everyones advice here and get the Alibre and Sprutcam combo, especially since Tormach can also help me with the Sprutcam if I need it. They even offer a one day class just for Sprutcam if I want to take that also.

So, here is my shopping cart so far, less the actual cutting tools...

(1) PCNC 770 with Automatic Oiler (31190-A) $6409.00

(1) 770 Machine Stand (31191) - $1077.00

(1) PCNC 770 Coolant Kit (31192) - $ 465.79

(1) Premier 600 Synthetic Coolant - 1 Gal. (31750) $ 22.75

(1) Machine Oil (31386) $ 32.75

(1) Performance Tormach Machine Controller (31520) $ 695.00

(1) Standard LCD Monitor (30615) $ 148.00

(1) Standard Keyboard (31294) $ 18.00

(1) Shuttle Jog Controller (30616) $ 76.38

(2) USB Extension - 6' (30509) $ 28.44

(1) Video Extension Cable, SVGA (30280) $ 24.53

(1) 5" CNC Vise (31759) $ 285.00

(1) Professional Vise Jaw Set (31882) $ 194.75

(1) 58 PC Pro Quality Steel Clamp Kit (31956) $ 58.75

(1) CNC Operator's Set with Tool Assistant Set (32284) $ 810.00

(1) Haimer Zero Master - Digital (31936) $ 345.00

(1) Alibre Design (30491) $ 199.00

(1) SprutCAM V7 - PCNC Post (31729) $ 992.00

Total Shipment Weight: 183.00 lbs. Subtotal: $11882.14


I guess I need to call Tormach and ask them about cutting tools... because Im a little confused on what to order...
Like if Im already getting the CNC Operator's Set with Tool Assistant Set here
Tormach Tooling System - Tooling Sets | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items
Then do I actually need everything they automatically add here to complete each tool?
Tormach Tooling System® - Modular Insert Tooling - End Mills | Tormach | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items


Im also thinking of taking the advise of just getting some Harbor Freight end mills to use, or at least practice with...
20 Piece Titanium Nitride Coated End Mill Set
and If I get this set, what would I need to hold these in the machine?

Wow, I cant wait to take that two day class at Tormach, but I'd like to place my order before then and maybe get set up before the class. That way I can come go home from the class, and get right to work on the machine before I forget what I learned! lol

Thanks again everyone!!

[titchener]

Don't waste your money on those chinese endmills, they are really bad.

Instead, go to Tool Holders, Collets and Machine Accessories - MariTool and get some of his carbide endmills.

Get the 3 flute ones for aluminum and the vari-flute 4 flute ones for steel (these cut steel amazingly smoothly).

I'd start out with some 1/8", 1/4" and 3/8" sizes.

Here's some tips to avoid crashes:

Whenever possible, always setup your workpiece so its top is above the top of your vise jaws. This minimizes the damage from programming mistakes and bad jogs.

For any program you haven't run before, always single step through it the first time you run it to check for programming mistakes and bad tool offsets. Check the DRO's after every step to make sure the machine is really where it thinks it is.

Never use MDI (manual entry) commands to jog your table or do any machining. I remember a thread on the PM forum from a years ago talking about the worst crashes people had ever seen and 90% of them were from bad MDI commands.
Instead use the jogging controls or MPG or write a program and single step it.

Paul T.
Power Technology

[David Bord]

Man, nice setup you are going to have!

You could save some money on cables if you purchase online through amazon.

Good advice above... especially the referencing on the top of the part and the MIDI commands.

At least for me, for now I would not purchase expensive tooling. I wouldnt even use carbide, just purchase HSS tooling from enco... Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies
and get use to the machine. Id stick with 2 flute below 3/8" in diameter. Bigger ones 4 flute should be ok. Until you learn feeds and speeds and general machining, you WILL break and dull LOTS of tools . Dont get garbage, just dont spend much on it.

Once you get the hang of it, definately get reasonable tooling. Ive found the Atrax brand from Enco is reasonable for general machining. Ive heard really good things about the tools mentioned above.

I would recommend purchasing the hobby version of Gwizard. It was well worth the purchase and its been a great help for me to get the feeds and speeds right. You can find more info about it on this site. Use the most conservative settings to start.

I would get a wobbler edge finder($10-20 or so from Enco) and leave the Haimer Zero Master in the box for a month or two. Its very easy to break the tip if you overun your approach. The Zero Master is fantastic and I recommend it. (I have one as well)

One of your first projects should be some soft jaws for the vise. You'll probably nick the vise jaws a time or two... better to mess up soft jaws than you steel jaws from the tormach vise.

It might not be a bad idea to machine some wood for your first few parts and then do Alum of the same parts so you know the program runs as you expect.

Definately take the sprutcam course and watch all the videos. It takes a bit to get used to, but its very very powerful!

Just take it slow while you learn the machine...

David