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I haven't been making any parts the past few weeks do to work overtime and health. Getting back to a little bit of normal around here. I till haven't decided on a tap head.
Looking heavily at a Tapmatic and just curious if anyone has used one and for smaller threads such as 4-40 or 3MM...
Anyone using a Tapmatic with Tormachs TTS? If so which one? I would like to use the self reversing if possible.
I been using a TTS adapted Procunier 1E reversing tap head for tapping 10s of thousands of 4-40 blind holes with great success. BTW I also have Tapmatics but never use them. The Procunier with cushioned double cone clutch just works better.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...rmUnderVie.jpg
The Procunier also taps 2-56 blind holes easily.
Tapping 2-56 on Tormach video by miltons_stuff - Photobucket
Don
I will definitely have to take another look at the Procunier, I have seen your posts on them before. I have the Tormach tapper(which is not theirs), but just never liked it much.Originally Posted by Don Clement
But, looking at your video's I can see where you made a solid rod for the reversing mechanism. I like that, not knowing much about tapping heads, I suspected the arm on the one I have is very weak and I don't think is repeating on successive holes, breaking the taps.
I will have to look at dimensions as I have a 770 and not as much vertical clearance as the 1100.
Magnum,
Do you have the Tormach tension compression head, or the reversing head? What about it dont you like?
David
I have the small reversing head. After setting it up it will drill 3-4 holes just fine with coolant and cutting fluid, but after about 3-4 holes it will generally not reverse properly and end up pulling the part out of the vise as the spindle retracts, most of the time snapping the tap. And yes the parts are clamped tight enough, problem is definitely just not reversing properly.
Bottom line I think the stop arm is the issue, the Tapmatic has a very solid stop arm (or the one i was looking at) and I haven't seen any info yet on the Procunier other than Don's pics. The one from Tormach has a very weak and sloppy arm I think that goes up in the spindle column. I think my problem is synchronizing my 770 to the tap, as that slop can vary each time it runs. it doesn't take much to throw it off and then the tap is no longer reversing and it just pulls the part up.
With my Procunier there is no synchronization issue. I feed at 100%, no dwell reverse twice the downfeed. I believe Tapmatic uses the same type dog clutch as the Tormach. The Procunier uses a straightforward simple smooth cushioned double cone clutch IMO perfect for tapping blind holes and stops within 1/3 revolution. I have both Tapmatic and Procunier. There is just no comparison IMO, I never use the Tapmatics. Besides I hate those rubber flex collets used on the Tapmatic. BTW The Procunier Pro-Quick collets Rockford Ettco Procunier Drilling and Tapping Products - Standard Manual Tappers Styles E & F are very similar to Tormach quick change collets on their T/C tapping heads. Snap-in tap change video by miltons_stuff - Photobucket
Don
Don
Your Procuiner looks like it takes some effort to get it on and off the machine. Can you tell us about that? I'm wondering if it is worth the effort to use it to tap four 4-40 holes in the parts I'm making. Or do I have the process wrong? Do you collect a pile of parts and cycle them back on the machine to tap the holes, one after the other?
Not only does it take literally seconds to change the TTS mounted Procunier tap head but it also takes only seconds to change taps with the Pro-Quick quick change collets as shown in this video: Note the Power Draw Bar Procunier TTS tool change video by miltons_stuff - Photobucket
To drill and tap many different size holes on the same part, I make use of the Power draw Bar and TTS mounted tools to perform many processes with the part fixtured once. E.g. Spot drill all holes, drill all holes with drill sizes for specific tap sizes, Procunier Tap head installed then change each tap size on the Procunier tap head using the Pro-Quick collet change. Note that the height for each tap size for each Pro-Quick mounted tap there is an entry in the tool table. Here is a picture of my assortment of Pro-quick mounted taps from 2-56 to 1/4-20, M6-1 http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...erQuickPro.jpg BTW almost all of the holes tapped with the Procuier are blind and are different depths. The Procunier works extremely well tapping blind holes as the cushoned double cone clutch disengages in 1/3 revolution. So the depth variation of different tapped holes and different tap sized holes is taken care of in G-coding not some depth stop setting on the tap head. Also note ther is no clutch adjustment setting on the Procunier as there is on the Tapmatic, so the Procunier works with all taps within it's range without need of clutch adjustment. I am able with the Procunier to quickly tap many different sized and depth blind holes with the part fixtured once with a single program. Note that tapping blind holes with the Procunier is at high speed on the Tormach. E.g. 4-40 blind holes are tapped with a spindle speed of 1200 rpm with a down feed of 30ipm (100% feed) and retract speed of 60ipm (the Procunier reverses at X2) no dwell. The tapping speed is limited by my seriesI PCNC so with the newer Tormachs the tapping speed on blind holes could be even faster with the Procunier.
If I was only to tap four holes the fastest way would be to use the Fischer mico tapping guide Fisher Machine Shop Pee Dee Wires and Tap Guide and T tap handle (Starrett 98A for 4-40) manually as shown here: http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...tap-holder.jpg
Don
Last edited by Don Clement; 06-26-2011 at 11:39 AM.
Magnum, thanks for the explanation. Im trying to decide what type to get. Don, looks like your solution is a good one to check out.
David
I've used a Tapmatic on a manual mill to cut hundreds of 8BA threads without a single broken tap. For information 8BA is about the same size as 2-56. However, I've never used the Tapmatic on my Tormach as I have a Maritool tension/compression tapping head for that.
Regards,
Andrew
I was not aware maritool made a tension/compression head, at least I could not find it on their website.
Don,
You have almost sold me. However is there any alternative ways to convert the Procunier to TTS. Looks like the OAL is about 5IN, how much extra length does your setup give to the collar on the TTS? Looks like that may be about the only way to mount that tool though.
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