4th axis lubrification oil...

[Freddy Bastard]

Hello all 4th axis users.

I'm installing my 4th axis today and I'm not sure which oil to use. I've Tonna V68. In the print they tell to use SAE 30, ISO 68, AGMA 2 gear oil or SAE 30 weight motor oil.

My question is: Can I use Tonna V68?

Thank's

[Don Clement]

I use 80W-90W hypoid gear oil in my RTs.

[HuFlungDung]

Is this a worm drive 4th axis?

[NC Cams]

If the OEM is spec'ing SAE3o, the arbitrary use of hypoid 80-90 will result in far more viscous drag than is really required. Maybe ok if the OEM wants/needs that viscosity but do arbitraily use/add it is not wise.

Chances are that if Tonna V68 has an ISO68 viscosity rating AND is suited for gearbox use (the additive package), it will work fine. SAE30 is surely goind to be much easier to find almost anywhere than an industrial based lubricant of ANY type.

I"d contact Tonna or do a web search for an MSDS for the stuff you have which could answer your questions much more decisively.

[Don Clement]

Actually the Tormach manual says to use SAE 80 Hypoid gear oil so my use of it is not arbitrary:
http://tormach.com/documents.htm
Lubrication
• The rotary table has an oil reservoir and two spring loaded oil fittings sealing
oil passages that must be filled with SAE 80 hypoid or ISO 68 or AGMA 2 gear
oil or SAE 30 weight motor oil before first operation.

[Freddy Bastard]

Thank's for the help.

Finally, I've called the tech suppport at Shell. The woman on the phone know his topic very well. She tell that the best oil for this type of equipment would be Spirax HD, it's a SAE 80W90 hypoid oil. She tell me too that Tonna V68 is not very good for this application since it's for static friction.

I received a couple of answer from this forum and from the Yahoo Tormach group and the best choise looked to be SAE 80W90 hypoid oil.

[philbur]

If the manual says SAE 80 hypoid or ISO 68 or SAE 30 weight motor oil and you already have some Tonna V68 then use the Tonna and save a few bucks. The application is cearly not critical.

If Tonna V68 is a way oil then it is good for this aplication as it is formulated to be "sticky" so that it remains on vertical surfaces when the machine is not in use. This would be fine for a seldom use RT I think.

Regards
Phil

Originally Posted by Freddy Bastard Thank's for the help. Finally, I've called the tech suppport at Shell. The woman on the phone know his topic very well. She tell that the best oil for this type of equipment would be Spirax HD, it's a SAE 80W90 hypoid oil. She tell me too that Tonna V68 is not very good for this application since it's for static friction. I received a couple of answer from this forum and from the Yahoo Tormach group and the best choise looked to be SAE 80W90 hypoid oil.

[NC Cams]

"Way oil" is for ways, NOT, NOT, NOT hypoid or for that fact ANY gearbox.

Gearbox lubes are specifically formulated with antiforam agents as well as antifriction and antiwear additives. Way oil is simply oil that is unsuited to lube a gear box.

Example: a machine shop forement arbitrarily chose to use way oil in a power transmssion device that just had power going thru it via a shaft - it didn't even have sliding gear loads. The result: we'd lose a set of bearings every 2-3 shifts.

Someone then read the manual (me) and found that SAE 2o motor oil was OK. I called a lube engineer and he recommended Dexron III - similar viscosity and MUCH, MUCH better additive package for wear, foam, corrosion, and the stuff was cheaper than "way oil"

Result: the device NEVER used another set of bearings the whole time I was there (couple years). Whereas we were rebuilding every 2-3 shifts, we ran for weeks on end and only changed the oil about once a month.

Motto: read the owners manual and follow their recommendations for lubes. Take message board lube recommendations with a grain of salt and don't EVER use way oil for anything but lubing ways.....

[philbur]

We are talking about a 6/8" rotary table here not a gear box for power transmission. I think you are a touch prone to over engineering. The bearings in this particular rotary table are plain bearings, the table bearing surfaces are flat face against flat face. They are all sliding, surface on surface (including the worm and crown) at low velocities. A perfect application for way oil.

I do agree with "Take message board lube recommendations with a grain of salt"

Regards
Phil

Originally Posted by NC Cams "Way oil" is for ways, NOT, NOT, NOT hypoid or for that fact ANY gearbox. Gearbox lubes are specifically formulated with antiforam agents as well as antifriction and antiwear additives. Way oil is simply oil that is unsuited to lube a gear box. Example: a machine shop forement arbitrarily chose to use way oil in a power transmssion device that just had power going thru it via a shaft - it didn't even have sliding gear loads. The result: we'd lose a set of bearings every 2-3 shifts. Someone then read the manual (me) and found that SAE 2o motor oil was OK. I called a lube engineer and he recommended Dexron III - similar viscosity and MUCH, MUCH better additive package for wear, foam, corrosion, and the stuff was cheaper than "way oil" Result: the device NEVER used another set of bearings the whole time I was there (couple years). Whereas we were rebuilding every 2-3 shifts, we ran for weeks on end and only changed the oil about once a month. Motto: read the owners manual and follow their recommendations for lubes. Take message board lube recommendations with a grain of salt and don't EVER use way oil for anything but lubing ways.....

[philbur]

"Way oil" is a generic term for an oil formulated for sliding surfaces, where stiction and intermittent use are issues. It gets the name "way oil" from its most common but not only use.

Regards
Phil

Originally Posted by NC Cams "Way oil" is for ways, .......don't EVER use way oil for anything but lubing ways.....

[Don Clement]

NC CAM: do you own a Tormach RT? Do you know how fast the Tormach RT rotates on rapids?

[NC Cams]

BULLETIN: the factory recommended lube as posted previously by another member indicates that hypoid gear oil and/or SAE motor oil are recommended for the device - way oil is specifically NOT found as an approved lubricant.

The comment: "...I think you are a touch prone to over engineering..." was also shouted in my direction by the shop foreman as he dumped way oil (as recommended by Bridgeport for mills) into the device as noted in my prior posting. He said that there would be NO difference between his almighty, lube anything, way oil and the Dexron that a lube engineer recommended.

He sat in slack jawed amazement when the device ran and ran far longer than it ever did with his almighty way oil. He NEVER challenged any lube recommendation that I made thereaftr, especially if it was cleared thru my lube engineer friend. The same guy confirmed that way oil should not be used in ANY geared device where antiwear, antifriction modified lubes are recommended - both hypoid and SAE motor oil are so modified.

Yes, I do, tend to "over engineer" stuff. But the stuff I subject to my "over engineering" tends to work and work properly, usually for longer periods and with less maintenance overall.

I stand by the "use what the OEM suggests" and that the member NOT use way oil unless it is approved by the OEM for the device under consideration....

Whether or not I own a Tormach does not preclude me from making true and proper statements about true and correct lubrication fundamentals -especially when I have experience with the prior mis-use of one of the so-called "recommended" lubes that were suggested.

As always, the reader is free to ignore by suggestions or follow them to the T. Caveat emptor