Tormach for Prototyping

[allennella]

Can someone offer a comparison between a Roland MDX-540/650 and the
Tormach for prototyping small (3"x6") plastic parts? Roland MDX series
is 27k w/the 4th axis option; it would be a long time before seeing
any profit from the machine.

Opinions?

Thanks,
Allen

[NinerSevenTango]

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but on looking at the Roland website, it looks like the Roland is very lightweight in comparison.

The Z travel and distance from spindle to table is very limited. This will be amplified when using the 4th axis.

The weight of the workpiece and the axis acceleration are limited. The Roland looks like it lacks rigidity, and that shows up in their repeatability spec. All else being equal, which it is not, the .004" over 12 " travel is quite troubling. Also, the .002" repeatability on homing would disqualify this machine for me. This probably means either the Roland is not using precision ground ball screws, or there is that much flex in the gantry portion of the machine. The Tormach is much more rigid, and it appears to be much more accurate.

Looks like the Tormach is a better machine for a whole whopping amount less money. Unless you need to run it on a desktop, the Tormach is a better deal.

An automatic tool changer would be nice, but I can swap a lot of tools out for $10,000. In fact, I could probably build one for the Tormach for that much!

--97T--

[Zumba]

Plastic only? Will you ever be machining metal? If it's just plastic and your parts never get much bigger than 6" x 3", you can probably get by with a $2K Taig.

For $7K, you could get a wickedly fast, super accurate custom router built. Much faster and accurate than a Tormach. Less rigid, but it wouldn't matter for plastic. Very easy to make as long as you use pre-assembled ballscrew actuators (kind of expensive but well within your budget). Only a minimal amount of parts would need to be fabricated from scratch. Mostly bolt together.

When I say "wickedly fast", I mean 15-30 times as fast as the Tormach. The Tormach rapids at 65IPM. A well designed router can do 2000 easily. For a complicated 3D part, that can mean start-to-finish during your lunch break rather than over night.

[allennella]

Thanks for the replies. I had been waiting for a Roland to popup on Ebay for about a year and lost one auction on a 650 for 14K. Now that I have sold my ZCorp I need to move forward and get something on order. I’m 90% sure I will purchase the Tormach w/the router attachment for small plastic parts and the option to machine metal will be a step-up over the Roland. I realize their might be some speed trade-off’s but some of the case studies I’’ve read on the Roland had 20hr run times for complex 3D parts. The ZCorp was kind of slow too, typically 6 to 10 hours for 6” x 6” parts.

Thanks again,
Allen

[LUCKY13]

Originally Posted by allennella Thanks for the replies. I had been waiting for a Roland to popup on Ebay for about a year and lost one auction on a 650 for 14K. Now that I have sold my ZCorp I need to move forward and get something on order. I’m 90% sure I will purchase the Tormach w/the router attachment for small plastic parts and the option to machine metal will be a step-up over the Roland. I realize their might be some speed trade-off’s but some of the case studies I’’ve read on the Roland had 20hr run times for complex 3D parts. The ZCorp was kind of slow too, typically 6 to 10 hours for 6” x 6” parts. Thanks again, Allen

Want the Tormach be even slower (not kicking on the machine). But the ability to cut metal for me would be a big plus. But that is what I would mainly need it for & then the attachment for doing the smaller stuff would just be a extra that would get me buy on some smaller stuff when the need came up ( but slower than a machine disigned for such a thing). But maybe still fast enough for you also.

IMHO the Tormach is a great machine for its designed purpose & pricing but it sounds like your needs may fall in a differnt area than this machine fits. Just trying to get you thinking about it, your the one that knows what you need and want. I myself would love to have this machine stting in my shop but my needs are metal parts with maybe a piece of plastic here & there. But the whole setup seems to be a well setup package that would fit my needs & budget very well.

Have you watched any of the vids on this machine in action? That might help knowing how fast it would go. You probably know all this & its abilities for you to be considering its purchase & if so your a head of anything I am thinking about or can offer as far as advice. But just talking can get one sometimes about something you may missed
or over looked.

Jess

Jess

[NinerSevenTango]

Allen,

Wow, sounds like you must be making complex parts with a very small cutter, if run times are that long. If that is the case, then maximum rapid traverse speed might not be a factor at all. In a case like this, the speed will be determined by the RPM, the spindle power, the tool, and the material. Do you actually machine plastic at faster than 60 IPM?

I bought mine for metal, one unique piece at a time. If I were milling production parts, then economics would dictate something that would give me more parts per hour, even though used machines start at triple the price with no guarantees. As it is, getting the accuracy machined into a metal part from a sketched design in less than a day for this price is unbeatable.

You can call the people at Tormach and they will answer your questions.

And if there is ever a problem, customer service is outstanding.

--97T--

[philbur]

I have to say I'm a bit confused. I can't see that these two machines are in any way comparable. They are designed for two distinct and mostly opposing purposes. It’s like comparing a yard broom with a paint brush. Which is best depends on whether you want to sweep the yard or paint the yard wall.

The Tormach is not really optimised for machining plastics spindle rpm is to low. It is good for aluminium and steel though. I have no experience of the Roland but it looks like it is somewhat optimised for plastics and none ferrous. So you pays your money and takes you choice.

Regards
Phil

Originally Posted by allennella Can someone offer a comparison between a Roland MDX-540/650 and the Tormach for prototyping small (3"x6") plastic parts? Roland MDX series is 27k w/the 4th axis option; it would be a long time before seeing any profit from the machine. Opinions? Thanks, Allen

[NinerSevenTango]

Phil,

I believe he was contemplating the router attachment.

Whether that will be satisfactory depends on what kind of gouging - errr, machining he will be doing.

--97T--

[MichaelHenry]

What sort of plastic parts and sizes/types of cutters? Are you thinking of using a router or the Proxxon die grinder? Do you have a sample drawing you could upload?

I'll be milling some plastic with my Tormach, probably with the standard spindle with the Proxxon on hand as a backup if higher speed is needed with small cutters (~<= 1/16"). I haven't quite gotten there yet so can't provide advice based on experience.

Mike