Tormach Surface Grinder??? - Page 2


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Thread: Tormach Surface Grinder???

  1. #21
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    Yes but surely an automatic surface grinder is really all about repetitive production type activities.

    Can an automatic surface grinder do anything a manual surface grinder can't?

    Phil

    PS: and no automatic z feed!

    Quote Originally Posted by waltpermenter View Post
    yes i'm sure tormach knows not everyone is limited in experience with anything other than milling aluminum, they know plenty of us do work with steels and being able to regrind our own/others punches and dies etc. would be a real benefit.
    walt




  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by philbur View Post
    Yes but surely an automatic surface grinder is really all about repetitive production type activities.

    Can an automatic surface grinder do anything a manual surface grinder can't?

    Phil



    PS: and no automatic z feed!
    Have you ever used a surface grinder automatic or not? Work on a decent sized part or multiple parts in a session and your forearms will soon appreciate a machine that moves itself back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, etc. do a pass, lower the z and repeat several times depending on depth required. don't think you realize how many strokes it takes across a part to get a smooth finish.
    walt



  3. #23
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    Yes both, but many, many years ago and not so many hours. I recall that Automatic was nice but the Manual wasn't a particular pain either.

    You can buy the equivalent Manual for €2,000, lets wait an see what the cost of eliminating a bit of hand cranking comes in at?

    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by waltpermenter View Post
    Have you ever used a surface grinder automatic or not?




  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by philbur View Post
    Yes both, but many, many years ago and not so many hours. I recall that Automatic was nice but the Manual wasn't a particular pain either.

    You can buy the equivalent Manual for €2,000, lets wait an see what the cost of eliminating a bit of hand cranking comes in at?

    Phil
    ok so what's your point, does tormach need to justify themselves to you for selling this machine?, i bet they don't care much what phil thinks, if you don't want one then don't buy one, simple as that.
    walt



  5. #25
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    OK I see, opinions other than your own are not allowed to be expressed on this Forum. When was that particular rule introduced, I must have missed it, sorry for my error.

    Phil



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    when the price comes out lets compare that to other automatic surface grinders this size, if they exist. some people are happy to change their tools in the mill manually while others are very happy to spend the money for a tormach product that does that for them. to each his own.
    walt

    Last edited by ger21; 10-28-2013 at 11:45 AM.


  7. #27
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    It will be interesting to see how this surface grinder pans out. Tormach has had, in my opinion, a "best in class" solution for their PCNC Mill. There just isn't much competition for the price/quality. The surface grinder is a smaller audience, it's a less "sexy" machine, and, IMHO, most importantly, the people who KNOW surface grinders are going to have strong opinions (e.g. tool/die makers).

    However, so far as I am aware, there is no true competition - e.g. a surface grinder that offers automated x/y motion.

    As for the z-axis not being automated: I would assume this is a safety measure. However, easy to automate yourself! Really easy...

    Tormach PCNC 1100, SprutCAM, Alibre CAD


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    Tormach has a design analysis document on the PSG page. As tikka308 surmised, safety was one of the factors in the decision not to automate the Z.

    http://www.tormach.com/uploads/725/T...1013A-pdf.html

    bob



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    Quote Originally Posted by tikka308 View Post
    It will be interesting to see how this surface grinder pans out. Tormach has had, in my opinion, a "best in class" solution for their PCNC Mill. There just isn't much competition for the price/quality. The surface grinder is a smaller audience, it's a less "sexy" machine, and, IMHO, most importantly, the people who KNOW surface grinders are going to have strong opinions (e.g. tool/die makers).

    However, so far as I am aware, there is no true competition - e.g. a surface grinder that offers automated x/y motion.

    As for the z-axis not being automated: I would assume this is a safety measure. However, easy to automate yourself! Really easy...
    yes, good points, as a person who has spent many many hours behind the wheel, what tormach is offering is something special. an automated z would not be in your best interest. the labor saving is in all the x and y movement not in moving the z down once per pass over the part.
    walt



  10. #30
    Member Steve Seebold's Avatar
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    I don't understand Tormach's beta plan. They build a good machine and then they send it to someone who has absolutely no idea what he's doing. They sent out some beta test lathes, but we never hear from the folks who have them. It appears the only information we get is what is done at Tormach.

    I would have thought someone who received the beta test lathe would just run the shyt out of it to prove or disprove what it is capable of. I know that's what I would have done.

    Sorry, but that's my opinion.

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Seebold View Post
    I don't understand Tormach's beta plan. They build a good machine and then they send it to someone who has absolutely no idea what he's doing. They sent out some beta test lathes, but we never hear from the folks who have them. It appears the only information we get is what is done at Tormach.

    I would have thought someone who received the beta test lathe would just run the shyt out of it to prove or disprove what it is capable of. I know that's what I would have done.

    Sorry, but that's my opinion.
    I'm sure you or I could give it a good shakedown but the idea is to get advertising. they can get some free here from beta testers especially ones with a big youtube presence or popular website. too bad they don't get away with what their competition does here on the forums by having a vendor do a build log showing what's being built for sale and when they are shipping out to customers.
    walt



  12. #32
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    Steve -

    Despite your comments (I may be an absolute newcomer to surface grinders, but I'm by no means a newcomer to the machine shop), I agree with you! If I were Tormach, I'd get them into the hands of both people like me (their target audience, and someone who shares his experiences via video) and people who really know surface grinding (you?). They offered me the beta program - I wasn't going to turn it down. I strive to be open and honest in my content -there are topics I'm proficient in and there are topics where I'm very much a beginner.

    Help me out - what kind of tests do you want to see? I'd be happy to craft a video around your suggestions.

    And despite you saying "i have no idea what I'm doing", what will happen is I will post more videos as I learn the machine over the coming months which will (hopefully) be used by folks who, like me, enjoy this stuff and want to learn. We don't all have the chance to be apprentices or learn the trade first-hand.

    Tormach PCNC 1100, SprutCAM, Alibre CAD


  13. #33
    Member Steve Seebold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tikka308 View Post
    Steve -

    Despite your comments (I may be an absolute newcomer to surface grinders, but I'm by no means a newcomer to the machine shop), I agree with you! If I were Tormach, I'd get them into the hands of both people like me (their target audience, and someone who shares his experiences via video) and people who really know surface grinding (you?). They offered me the beta program - I wasn't going to turn it down. I strive to be open and honest in my content -there are topics I'm proficient in and there are topics where I'm very much a beginner.

    Help me out - what kind of tests do you want to see? I'd be happy to craft a video around your suggestions.

    And despite you saying "i have no idea what I'm doing", what will happen is I will post more videos as I learn the machine over the coming months which will (hopefully) be used by folks who, like me, enjoy this stuff and want to learn. We don't all have the chance to be apprentices or learn the trade first-hand.
    Tikka, you are absolutely right. It's good to see what a novice has to say about the grinder, but it would help to see what an experienced machinist or tool maker has to say about it as well.

    I don't know how many lathes the company sent out, but the only feed back we are getting is from the company.

    I bought my mill based on what I read and I have no regrets, but I think I'll wait a year after the lathe comes out.

    I NEVER buy a new car the first year.

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Seebold View Post
    Tikka, you are absolutely right. It's good to see what a novice has to say about the grinder, but it would help to see what an experienced machinist or tool maker has to say about it as well.

    I don't know how many lathes the company sent out, but the only feed back we are getting is from the company.

    I bought my mill based on what I read and I have no regrets, but I think I'll wait a year after the lathe comes out.

    I NEVER buy a new car the first year.
    The whole purpose of beta testing is to work out bugs before release. Tormach may tell their beta testers to keep their mouths shut so no rumors start spreading about an issue that gets corrected before release anyway. Obviously it is better for Tormach for them to control what is said about their machines. If it's good, they will share, if it's bad, they have a chance to correct it before it becomes a sellable product.



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    Quote Originally Posted by keebler303 View Post
    The whole purpose of beta testing is to work out bugs before release. Tormach may tell their beta testers to keep their mouths shut so no rumors start spreading about an issue that gets corrected before release anyway. Obviously it is better for Tormach for them to control what is said about their machines. If it's good, they will share, if it's bad, they have a chance to correct it before it becomes a sellable product.
    well if that is the purpose then why would they give one to a guy who admits he has no experience with a surface grinder, how would he know what works and what doesn't to give them feedback? and why give one to a guy that makes so many videos and posts them on youtube right out of the box and says will post more? if what you say is true then steve would be the better candidate, no?
    walt



  16. #36
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    I was in one of Tormachs other betas. They intentionally had a wide range of experiences and user-types in it to get the best possible coverage.

    After all if say the manual doesn't say which way the wheel is supposed to turn, who is more likely to catch it, the guy that's never used a SG and doesn't know or the dude with thousands of hours on one that will fire it up and say "looks to be working ok". On the other hand if it doesn't do something critical for say injection mold ejector pins, then the old-hand is the right tester...



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    Hey folks. Do a service to the guys that are reading this thread and stop the personal insults and improper postings. Keep it pointed at the topic and not each other. No reason to have this topic get locked due to a couple folks inability to be civil. Thanks, JR

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  18. #38
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    These same 4-5 members have shown repeatedly that they can't be civil. Back to instant ban mode.

    Gerry

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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by shred View Post
    I was in one of Tormachs other betas. They intentionally had a wide range of experiences and user-types in it to get the best possible coverage.

    After all if say the manual doesn't say which way the wheel is supposed to turn, who is more likely to catch it, the guy that's never used a SG and doesn't know or the dude with thousands of hours on one that will fire it up and say "looks to be working ok". On the other hand if it doesn't do something critical for say injection mold ejector pins, then the old-hand is the right tester...
    That's good to hear, are you the former or the latter as per SG experience, any critiques to offer on it?
    walt



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltpermenter View Post
    That's good to hear, are you the former or the latter as per SG experience, any critiques to offer on it?
    walt
    Sorry, I'm not on the SG beta (although when cranking away on the old manual Harig, sometimes I wish I was). The one I did was before that.



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