Collet closer vibration

[whagkangmakulet]

Do you guys get a vibration on the 5C collet closer handle/end spindle area? I'm not sure if this is normal?.. bothers me! I dialed the spindle assembly about 10X+ and even purchased a mitutoyo .0001 indicator as I suspect a low budget shars indicator may be at fault, it wasn't. If i apply a slight upward force at the end of the collet closer it somewhat minimize the sound a bit, but the vibrating feel is still there.

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[LeeWay]

Yes. I have always had it to some degree. I also adjusted that ring a few times. I know it is worse at certain speeds, better at others. I haven't studied it enough yet to find out why it does it. When I put my auto closer system on it, it did help to lessen those vibrating effects, but they are still there.

[cbyrd]

Mine is the same, I have zero run out on the mount piece and it still vibrates. Tormach says it is ok. Has not affected my machines operation.

Chris

[LeeWay]

The only thing that I have seen it do is loosen the black knob on it. Other than that, nothing detrimental. It does bug me though. That is $1000.00 piece of tooling. It should just be better.

[MichaelHenry]

Mine doesn't seem to vibrate in use but it is a bit tricky to get the drawbar started on a collet. I'm hoping that either gets better with use or that I'll find a way to adjust the drawbar so that it aligns better with the spindle axis.

[LeeWay]

I have been using all brass collets in mine, but things do break in with use and it does get easier. I used some of that copper paste from Tormach on the collet seats and on the threads. That seems to help. Not much. Just a little smear. I also have a rubber mallet that we use. A lot! That makes it all go smoothly.


This stuff here.

31273 - Anti-seize

[whagkangmakulet]

I feel much better that I'm not the only one getting this vibration, I actually put a halt on my assembly knowing that I have screwed up my collet closer alignment... You're right Lee, for $1000 upgrade I was really expect a more concentric/balanced components.

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[MichaelHenry]

The closer is made by JFK who say their parts are made in the US, so those of you with vibration issues may want to give them a call and see if they have any suggestions on fixing it.

https://www.jfkprecisionproducts.com/

Judging from their web site, a phone call might be more productive than email.

[Path]

I called J.F.K this morning and spoke with a representative about the vibration.
He emphasized that the Index ring needs to be concentric with the spindle.
And to secure the bolts on the connector rod. Adjustment of the threaded rod is also important to center
the Bearing & Retainer Assembly.

The above will help ... but I think a better solution is to replace the two
bolts with tight fitting bronze pins ... very much like a real hinge. The pivot points now
are very sloppy and allows all kinds of movement in all directions.
With the new pins the only movement will be rotational.
When things settle down I'll try that ... may have to ream the holes to match but that's
easy to do.

JFK also has an Air Operated closure ... available only through Tormach but costly
(upwards $2500 or more), if Tormach would even offer it.


Pat H.

[LeeWay]

I figured out what was wrong with mine. The two center set screws that seat on the bearing of the closer were sloppy.
I adjusted those and then adjusted my two bolts on the back side that hold the ring to the machine. Mine use shoulder bolts, so they are good. I keep them lubed. I tightened them fully and backed off a 1/4 turn.
Then it runs smoothly now.

[whagkangmakulet]

Lee, what RPM value is your lathe running on that video? Looks really good!

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[LeeWay]

That was 2200 RPM.
I'll shoot another one at maybe 3200 or so and upload it.
That is the bets I have seen it work yet.
It got better than original when I installed the air cylinder, so without that, it may not work as well on yours.

[LeeWay]

This is 3500 RPM.
I ran it through all ranges and it was the same. No visible movement to speak of, but I can still feel vibration when I put my hand on the lever.
Still much better than it was.
It does feel like that big bearing needs some grease or something.

[whagkangmakulet]

Here are my results, I redialed it to show it on the video. I did adjust the two set screw with nuts that Lee mention, I adjust it a little to keep it the bearing concentric. Watching Lee's video seems like my 5C collet closer is within normal operation, I will probably make Lee's/Gmade's automatic collet closer to further minimize the vibration.

Dialed

[whagkangmakulet]

2000 rpm


- - - Updated - - -

3500 rpm

[LeeWay]

Looks good.
That is about as close as I have my center ring dialed in as well.
Do you still feel it on the lever?

[whagkangmakulet]

Looks good.
That is about as close as I have my center ring dialed in as well.
Do you still feel it on the lever?

I still feel the vibration on the lever. With all the moving parts around the collet closer maybe balancing is needed or some sort of damping arm instead of the threaded rod.

[LeeWay]

Most of them that I have seen are basically the same design.
I am pretty sure that balance is part of the problem, but not on the head itself. It has to be in the bearing. It we were to get that ring closer, would that make it run better?
I think it might. The way that is done now is a real pain.
I am considering using the chuck and boring the ring center to match the spindle bore right there.
Then a simple alignment tool can easily be used. No fussing with it.
I have also seen one closer that does use a little better design than a threaded rod.

I might consider doing both mods in the near future.
It has got to be better for the machine to be running true and balanced. A least in the long term.

[LeeWay]

Something else that may help if you have the stuff laying around would be a piece of pipe cut the right length and properly sized fender washers to help support the threaded rod better. Not big pipe, just enough to help spread the load on it. May or may not help, but couldn't hurt.

[LeeWay]

I was still not satisfied with this today while I was redoing the tool tables on my lathe.
I started looking harder at this.
There is a spanner nut on the closer that I have not messed with. It was backed off the bearing about 1/4" or so. Closer to the outer collar.
I thought that did not look right.
First picture is an early one just after installing the closer the first time. That spanner nut is up against the bearing, so the vibrating did back it off the bearing at some point.
I never checked to see how tight it was.

Then I took a closer look at the shoulder bolts. The shoulders are undersized for the holes. Maybe metric? Anyway, the should be 5/16" shoulders that are 1.5" long on the shoulder. 1/4" 20 thread on the nut. The yoke assembly itself is solid, so a pipe cover would not really help anything there.
The bracket on the machine itself is the real loose one. I am not sure that bronze pins alone will fix it. It would be much better if that play was absent. When it does wiggle, that joint wiggles the most. A shimming washer may also be needed. Not real precise machining at the connections. Second picture is how it sits now with the spanner lock up where it should be on the bearing. As for the bearing, it isn't the most spinney one I have seen, but it does spin and I feel no rough spots or noise. There is definitely grease inside. I doubt it is playing a role in the vibration.

I will have to see about ordering a new locking pin as well. Ours is difficult to operate now and because it wasn't seated, allowed the collet to spin out. Not good. I caught it quickly though.

I am also wondering about the collet on the outside of the tube? Should that be up against the nut so it cannot come loose? It does not look to be threaded. Just has a set screw.
I'll let you guys know how it progresses.