Tormach 2200 Professional CNC - your dream list

[R.DesJardin]

A vertical tomb stone that rotates 180 degrees so one side is in position for the user to clamp material onto while the other side is running operations could be used either way. I have seen tomb stones with multiple vise type fixtures mounted in series on 2 sides or more........

I wouldn't want to work on it as it runs, but being able to setup parts on 4 side of the tombstone, machine on parts on three sides of it and not have a pallet changer seems sensible. First HMC I saw only had two tombstones, and it was a big Mori. So a PCNC H2200 could easily be worthwhile with one rotating tombstone.

[Uman]

I would like to see a new stand with the following features:
Coolant routing path back to remote tank (not under mill)
A dreamliner type chip containment system
Manual tray chip removal system.
Auto chip removal system.

Also....
A table that does not clog and allows coolant to drain. (slot instead of the hole)
A taller miniature enclosure around the table to contain coolant with a hinged door.

[MichaelHenry]

I read somewhere (or maybe someone at Tormach told me) that one of the criteria for machines that they sell is that it must be possible to deliver them with a lift gate to residential areas. So far as I know that limits them to machines no larger than the 1100 mill or the 15L lathe.

[CadRhino]

Good points but those machines (brother, sharp) are going to cost upwards of 70-80k

QUOTE=AUSTINMACHINING;2146020]Tormach is already in their market. A machine that will fit in most garages and run on single phase power. Otherwise, there are many used, true VMC machines for 15-20K that could turn a Tormach into chips quickly. Not to knock the "garage machines", I have one that runs daily, but I don't see how they could compete in a market that already exists without costing $$$. Brother, Hurco, Fanuc,Sharp,Doosan etc. have machines ~ 6000lb range BT30 etc. that are blazing fast. Holding .0002" accuracy with good geometric tolerances would require materials that would push them into the price range as these other industrial grade machines.[/QUOTE]

[C*H*U*D]

Why not buy one of these and machine a holder to fit its diameter.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5mm-ER11A-E....c100009.m1982

Jeff

I've thought about going the DIY route, and have also looked at this combination:

https://www.tormach.com/store/index....00&portrelay=1

https://www.tormach.com/store/index....32&portrelay=1

Two things bother me though. Price is one. The other is I contacted Tormach last summer about ER11 TTS holders, and they said they were "On the way"! I'd hate to go through the purchase of separate parts, only to have a simpler and more economical solution come out shortly after.

What makes me scratch my head is the fact that the 770 and 440 are perfect candidates for this, but Tormach doesn't seem to see a need for them.

I may be mistaken, but this forum seems to be the most active as far as Tormach owners are concerned (maybe I'm wrong?). Does anyone know if Tormach participates here, or even reads anything here? I'm just curious since it seems to be a great way for them to know their customers.

[AUSTINMACHINING]

Good points but those machines (brother, sharp) are going to cost upwards of 70-80k

QUOTE=AUSTINMACHINING;2146020]Tormach is already in their market. A machine that will fit in most garages and run on single phase power. Otherwise, there are many used, true VMC machines for 15-20K that could turn a Tormach into chips quickly. Not to knock the "garage machines", I have one that runs daily, but I don't see how they could compete in a market that already exists without costing $$$. Brother, Hurco, Fanuc,Sharp,Doosan etc. have machines ~ 6000lb range BT30 etc. that are blazing fast. Holding .0002" accuracy with good geometric tolerances would require materials that would push them into the price range as these other industrial grade machines.

[/QUOTE]


Ya, that was kind of my point. To get bigger with that accuracy, I'm guessing they would have to leave China and source the iron from Taiwan or Korea. Along with better screws/linear guides, control, twin arm tool changer, enclosure etc. By then, they are approaching costs of other Mfr's. I have always been amazed at the cost of a HAAS mini mill. It cost more than some of their larger machines. My Novakon Torus pro has a larger work envelope. The New Hurco VM5I looks like an awesome little machine,tiny footprint etc., and from what I've gathered,. is around the $35-40k range.

[jeffrey001]

I really would love to have an option for servo motor, I don't have a Tormach mill, only the lathe.

Jeff

[kstrauss]

I really would love to have an option for servo motor, I don't have a Tormach mill, only the lathe.

Jeff

Why do you specify having a "servo motor" rather than any possible advantages of using servos? Surely what is important is cost/performance rather than how the performance is achieved.

[jeffrey001]

Why do you specify having a "servo motor" rather than any possible advantages of using servos? Surely what is important is cost/performance rather than how the performance is achieved.

Possible closed loop machine

Jeff

[84scrambler]

I contacted tormach a few weeks ago and wanted to know if they have anything in the pipe line for a possible bigger machine. The response I got is they don't have a bigger machine at this time but they didn't answer my question if they were working on one or not so perhaps its on the drawing board but they haven't fully committed. If I was on there staff you damn bet it would be on the list of a possible marketable product. My biggest problem right now is physical size, I am having to source a bunch of work out because I don't have the physical range in my machine and am currently looking at upgrading to a Haas. If you are reading this Tormach, here is a potential customer... hello, right here...

[coolcncstuff]

I've thought about going the DIY route, and have also looked at this combination:

https://www.tormach.com/store/index....00&portrelay=1

https://www.tormach.com/store/index....32&portrelay=1

Two things bother me though. Price is one. The other is I contacted Tormach last summer about ER11 TTS holders, and they said they were "On the way"! I'd hate to go through the purchase of separate parts, only to have a simpler and more economical solution come out shortly after.

What makes me scratch my head is the fact that the 770 and 440 are perfect candidates for this, but Tormach doesn't seem to see a need for them.

I may be mistaken, but this forum seems to be the most active as far as Tormach owners are concerned (maybe I'm wrong?). Does anyone know if Tormach participates here, or even reads anything here? I'm just curious since it seems to be a great way for them to know their customers.

I've been talking with (un-named company at this time) this morning about them doing the TTS ER11 tool holders! We'll see. I know they did something with AB Tool on the Shear Hog.

[kstrauss]

Please keep us informed.

[Knires]

For the ER11 collet holders, have you thought of using the modular ER11 collet head? https://www.tormach.com/store/index....CK&portrelay=1
You can use the Tormach modular holders of various lengths.

[C*H*U*D]

For the ER11 collet holders, have you thought of using the modular ER11 collet head? https://www.tormach.com/store/index....CK&portrelay=1
You can use the Tormach modular holders of various lengths.

That was actually the solution Tormach gave me when I asked them last year. Again, price is an issue since I want at least 5-10 to start with. Realistically, I'd like to have about 20.

Sorry to the OP if I derailed this thread.

[Spinnetti]

I bought my 1100 for a reason, and that hasn't changed. I don't want a series 2200, but just a series IV that doesn't have so many shortcuts; This is more product refinements rather than new capabilities.
- A real stand/enclosure that is not a cobble job
- Drains properly
- Doesn't collect junk under the machine
- Pump is sufficient for the job (existing one might be if you fix the other things)
- Tall enough to slide a engine hoist under it (lets be real, that's how most of us move these things)
- Table that drains properly instead of having to cobble mods so the drains don't plug
- Sliding way covers instead of the rubber things which just collect chips and coolant
- Move the control box off the back of the machine and up to the front of the enclosure
- Option for a manual, but fast draw bar - several folks here have had nice solutions. For us non-ATC people, this strikes me better than the air operated Jobbie and more cost effective.
- 4th axis that is sealed (doesn't fill up with coolant)
- 4th axis position sensing
- Simultaneous 4th axis machining
- On mine, the emergency bumpers under the table didn't engage before the table slams home - might just have been a QA issue on my machine tho.

Do that, and keep selling the existing one - gets you across multiple price points, yet still meets the original mission and doesn't change the core hardware (and thus key expense). I'd buy another today, except it irritates me that I have to go rengineer the flaws to get something that makes me happy. I'm tempted to suck it up and just get a new HAAS MiniMill II, not that I need it. I also think they should take the time to survey their customers and ask us about our experiences and suggestions then use the pool of those to consider for the next improvements. Hopefully they will not just sit on the existing designs without future improvement while they chase new niches.

[CadRhino]

++++1 on the coolant proof 4th axis.

I like and see that if you want those upgrades maybe they should add. More hp and servoes and do the 2200

I still think they would have a niche with their customer support


QUOTE=Spinnetti;2154204]I bought my 1100 for a reason, and that hasn't changed. I don't want a series 2200, but just a series IV that doesn't have so many shortcuts; This is more product refinements rather than new capabilities.
- A real stand/enclosure that is not a cobble job
- Drains properly
- Doesn't collect junk under the machine
- Pump is sufficient for the job (existing one might be if you fix the other things)
- Tall enough to slide a engine hoist under it (lets be real, that's how most of us move these things)
- Table that drains properly instead of having to cobble mods so the drains don't plug
- Sliding way covers instead of the rubber things which just collect chips and coolant
- Move the control box off the back of the machine and up to the front of the enclosure
- Option for a manual, but fast draw bar - several folks here have had nice solutions. For us non-ATC people, this strikes me better than the air operated Jobbie and more cost effective.
- 4th axis that is sealed (doesn't fill up with coolant)
- 4th axis position sensing
- Simultaneous 4th axis machining
- On mine, the emergency bumpers under the table didn't engage before the table slams home - might just have been a QA issue on my machine tho.

Do that, and keep selling the existing one - gets you across multiple price points, yet still meets the original mission and doesn't change the core hardware (and thus key expense). I'd buy another today, except it irritates me that I have to go rengineer the flaws to get something that makes me happy. I'm tempted to suck it up and just get a new HAAS MiniMill II, not that I need it. I also think they should take the time to survey their customers and ask us about our experiences and suggestions then use the pool of those to consider for the next improvements. Hopefully they will not just sit on the existing designs without future improvement while they chase new niches.[/QUOTE]

[IMT]

I believe that there is a niche market for a 2200, even if it is just an 1100 with 12-16" Y travel and 30 or so X. Servos, more HP etc... would be nice but are not something I need. The increase in work envelope is a need as I'm always doing stuff at or over the size limitation of the 1100. Doing a part in 6 setups instead of 2 is a pain.
The jump to the Haas TM1 is a little to much when you consider the cost of the accessories. Just adding the probe and a 4th axis from Haas cost ($16K) about the same as my 1100 with stand, PDB, 4th axis etc...

[coffeetek]

I don't think they have any chance or space in "Professional" market. These are simply not professional level machines reliability wise. Its not professional level support. When you have machine which you rely on to make money daily you don't want to be fiddling around to fix it, wait on parts, wait on email replies, wait on callbacks and go on like that for days and days in circles. You need stuff fixed by service technician, today or tomorrow.

[IMT]

I don't think they have any chance or space in "Professional" market. These are simply not professional level machines reliability wise. Its not professional level support. When you have machine which you rely on to make money daily you don't want to be fiddling around to fix it, wait on parts, wait on email replies, wait on callbacks and go on like that for days and days in circles. You need stuff fixed by service technician, today or tomorrow.

I agree. I don't need a "Professional" machine, just a bigger one.

[CadRhino]

Good points. That would leave only a Haas machine for me, then. They have local technicians. If I went with a Brother, their service techs are three states away and I would have to fly them in on my nickel.



QUOTE=coffeetek;2154876]I don't think they have any chance or space in "Professional" market. These are simply not professional level machines reliability wise. Its not professional level support. When you have machine which you rely on to make money daily you don't want to be fiddling around to fix it, wait on parts, wait on email replies, wait on callbacks and go on like that for days and days in circles. You need stuff fixed by service technician, today or tomorrow.[/QUOTE]

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.....or a 3-phase converter like a digital one.

10 HP requires 3 phases.

Jeff