Problem VFD Showing No Power


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  1. #1
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    Default VFD Showing No Power

    Okay folks, in a little bit of a bind here (have not run the mill in a few weeks). Went to run the mill this morning and all powered up per normal. Went to air test a part and had no spindle rotation. Upon further evaluation, I realized that the VFD has no lights on the screen so I'm assuming no power.

    Where do I start?

    2012 PCNC 1100 Series 3

    Similar Threads:
    Last edited by smokediver576; 11-04-2017 at 12:36 PM.
    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Hummmm

    Looking like it may be a contactor issue. I've got zero voltage.

    From the troubleshooting guide:
    "No power to VFD because contactor C2 is not energizing. This can be checked by checking the voltage across L16 and L26 at the VFD. Meter should read 200-250 VAC."

    Anyone got a suggestion to get me through the weekend until a new contactor can be purchased?

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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Okay.... Now that was weird. I put the machine in manual mode per the troubleshooting - turned on the spindle and all worked. Switched it back over to auto mode and now the system is back working.....

    Guessing I might need to pick up a new contactor since maybe it's starting to go....

    From the manual:
    Control board not providing run command or holding contact on C2 between wires 106 and 107 defective. In manual mode, press the Spindle Stop Switch. With the door open, press the Spindle Start Switch and listen for a soft audible click on the control board. If you hear this click (from a relay contact on the board), the board is functioning properly.

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Is the contactor pulling in (energizing) on power up? If not, is there power between the A1 and A2 terminals on the contactor? This should be whatever the system control voltage is.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    We posted at the same time

    Maybe take a look at the Auto/Manual switch? Or maybe the controller was just confused for a bit.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Well, did some more digging and now am even more confused.

    Get the VFD powered up via the manual - spindle on - off then back to auto mode. All is good. Program seems to run as intended. Open the spindle door and it kicks out the VFD again. Have to wash-rinse-repeat the sequence.

    My concern now is what I read and tested in the manual. When I jumper the 106 to 107 it kicks in the contactor. Remove the jumper and it stays on....... reading the trouble shooting guide that points to a board issue but it's not real clear. Do they mean that only if the program will not run...? What if it stays on and runs the program?

    From the guide:
    Ensure you have 115 VAC measured from wire 100 to wire 106. Make a jumper wire and, using proper care
    associated with live circuits, momentarily jumper wires 106 and 107. If contactor C2 pulls in (you will hear an
    audible clunk) while you have the jumper on but drops out as soon as you remove the jumper, the holding contact
    on C2 is defective. If C2 stays powered on, the control board is not passing the run signal to the circuit. Make
    certain you are commanding the VFD to run. If so, the control board is defective.

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    I would expect the VFD contactor to drop out on spindle door open. Sounds normal up to that point.

    Jumpering 106 - 107 pulls in the contactor, and as I understand it stays pulled in, so good here.

    That leaves the board or the Auto/Manual switch. But the question is: Is the board getting the signal from the Auto/Manual switch, or is the board defective.?

    I would check the voltage at the Auto/Manual switch and at the board on the mating terminals. If the Auto signal is getting to the board, then that would point to the board as the problem.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Okay... something new has now popped up. If I verify the VFD is under power (I have to jump 106 to 107 on the contactor to get it to power up) and I engage the power drawbar.... guess what - it kicks out the contactor to the VFD.....

    What are folks thoughts on jumping 106 to 107 on the contactor and leaving it powered? It creates a 115v circuit.

    Thanks,
    Awall

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Do you have a schematic for that machine? I would want to know if the contactor is supposed to drop out when the PDB is engaged. Also if you jumped 106 - 107, what effect does that have on the E-Stop, and restart sequence? You could put the machine in a very unsafe condition by installing that jumper.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Do you have a schematic for that machine? I would want to know if the contactor is supposed to drop out when the PDB is engaged. Also if you jumped 106 - 107, what effect does that have on the E-Stop, and restart sequence? You could put the machine in a very unsafe condition by installing that jumper.
    I think I remember something about the PDB cutting power to the VFD to keep it from spinning if you accidentally left it engaged.

    The jumper would only be an emergency fix to get me through the project I'm on this weekend. After this, I should have about a one week open spot that I can wait on parts. From everything I can tell from it's signs and symptoms point to the contactor.

    https://www.tormach.com/store/index....show&ref=30465

    Would love to hear if others who had this issue, if the contactor fixed it.

    Thanks,
    Awall

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    My concern now is what I read and tested in the manual. When I jumper the 106 to 107 it kicks in the contactor. Remove the jumper and it stays on
    Before you replace the contactor, concider the above. That would indicate that the contactor is fine.

    From the guide:
    Ensure you have 115 VAC measured from wire 100 to wire 106. Make a jumper wire and, using proper care
    associated with live circuits, momentarily jumper wires 106 and 107. If contactor C2 pulls in (you will hear an
    audible clunk) while you have the jumper on but drops out as soon as you remove the jumper, the holding contact
    on C2 is defective. If C2 stays powered on, the control board is not passing the run signal to the circuit. Make
    certain you are commanding the VFD to run. If so, the control board is defective.
    When the VFD is supposed to be on and the contactor is not energized, check the voltage across A1 and A2 on the contactor. A1 (wire # 107 maybe?) is normally the signal, and A2 (wire # 100 maybe?) is normally the common. If you don't have power at A1, then that would indicate that there is a problem ahead of the contactor (board maybe?).

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Hey Jim,

    Thanks for the feedback. Seems that it all works past prior to and past the contactor. As soon as something tells the contactor to kick out, it loses the 115 volt signal to keep it engaged. I can run a multi tool change program and it works on the spindle side correctly. I just have to manual jump the 106/107 to bring the 220v back to the VFD.

    Looks like I'll be paying for the annual $450 tech support service at Tormach tomorrow.

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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    Looks like I'll be paying for the annual $450 tech support service at Tormach tomorrow.
    Before you do that, let's check the obvious. Remove, inspect, and reinstall the 106 and 107 wires at both ends. This could just be a loose wire. Pull the terminal block that 106 and 107 are screwed into, and inspect the pins on the machine control board for corrosion or damage.

    Odds are, however, that this is a fault with the machine control board. One of those 6 "ice cube" relays died (not socketed???) or the magic smoke escaped from somewhere.

    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3 mill, Grizzly G0709 lathe, PM935 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.


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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Quote Originally Posted by tmarks11 View Post
    Before you do that, let's check the obvious. Remove, inspect, and reinstall the 106 and 107 wires at both ends. This could just be a loose wire. Pull the terminal block that 106 and 107 are screwed into, and inspect the pins on the machine control board for corrosion or damage.

    Odds are, however, that this is a fault with the machine control board. One of those 6 "ice cube" relays died (not socketed???) or the magic smoke escaped from somewhere.
    But if it's the control board would'nt I get issues with the machine running the spindle during programs? Man.... I really am hoping that I don't get hit with a $490 control board plus the $450 service contract....

    The wires on the contactor seem to be good.

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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Hell.... I give up.... tonight the damn thing is working just fine.

    I'm thinking I might just go ahead and get the contactor to have on had. It's only $65 so why not....

    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Those are the kind of problems that drive service techs crazy. But happy to hear it running correctly now..

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Member nitewatchman's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Those are the kind of problems that drive service techs crazy. But happy to hear it running correctly now..
    The door switch is adjusted correctly, correct?

    Gary



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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Quote Originally Posted by nitewatchman View Post
    The door switch is adjusted correctly, correct?

    Gary
    Yep, that was the first thing I checked into because I remember seeing something about that in the past.

    Curious, for those PCNC 1100 folks out there. When you hit the power draw bar and do a tool change, does the screen on your VFD go blank after about 30 seconds?

    When I run a program, it sends the M3/M4 command and you hear the contactor make the heavy "thump" as it engages and then the spindle spins up and runs per normal. Now I'm concerned I've been chasing something that's "not" actually a problem. However, I did have an issue when I first ran the machine Saturday where the spindle did not power up on the first program (which is what started this whole thread). I just thought that as long as the machine was powered up and out of Estop that the VFD would show power on the LED readout at all times.

    Thoughts?

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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    Curious, for those PCNC 1100 folks out there. When you hit the power draw bar and do a tool change, does the screen on your VFD go blank after about 30 seconds?
    I was 100% positive that it wouldn't turn off the VFD - but it did!
    I'd forgotten the 2 blue wires from the PDB to the terminal strips:

    VFD Showing No Power-pdb_interface-png

    I haven't looked inside my machine but from the picture the black block behind the connector would appear to be a relay which is presumably connected in series with the spindle door switch and disconnects the VFD contactor in the same manner as when the spindle door is opened.

    From what you've written so far, either you've "been chasing something that's "not" actually a problem" (which are the best kind of problems to have) or I'd also guess that the issue is either on the control board or earlier as I think someone else also suggested. It doesn't sound like a contactor issue to me (but I was wrong about the VFD turning off so I may not be the best reference )
    Good luck
    Step



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    Default Re: VFD Showing No Power

    I have had intermittent problems with the PDB board, mine was power to the air valve.

    mike sr


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