Newbie Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?


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    Default Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    Is anybody doing this often?

    How is the benefit paying off for you?

    What scenarios work better then others?

    Any tips?




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    Member kstrauss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    I don't have a 3D printer so no experience. However, I often proof work using the Tormach and PVC foamboard from Home Depot. The foamboard is cheaper than machinable wax or aluminum, is available on Saturday afternoon and can be cut at 2-5 times the cutting speed for aluminum. A major advantage over a 3D printer is that identical gcode is used for the foam trial and for the final work; only the feedrates differ.



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    3D Printing might be useful to verify that your CAD model is accurately drawn, and that the pieces fit together for multi-piece parts. Also to generate a sample for a client to look at prior to starting a production run.

    But for safety? Since the problems are usually encountered with the G-Code generated by your cam code (and choices of workpiece offsets and tool selection and tool offsets), I don't think 3dprinting in advance gives you much of a safety addition. The 3DPrinter slicer software generates g-code that will look nothing like what your cam software generates. Not to mention that the 3dprinting process is opposite (subtractive manufacturing vs additive manufacturing), extremely slow, and ultimately an unneeded expense (producing 3d models to throw away is just an unnecessary cost).

    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3 mill, Grizzly G0709 lathe, PM935 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.


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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    Comes in handy when playing with designs, but when you know what you want to make, there's not as much point. Plastic or wood or aluminum will by and large cut faster than a 3d print and let you proof the toolpaths and workholding while you're at it.



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    I don't have a 3D printer but I will always draw in 3D so I can see what my part looks like before I start making chips. The only thing I haven't figured out how to draw yet is threads.

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    Until recently, my "cad program" was a pencil and sheet of notebook paper. Also an eraser. I just recently got my feet wet with Fusion 360. Still for most 2 1/2 d work, it's my pencil and paper.. I'm in a love/hate relationship with my new 3d printer but wouldn't consider using it to preview machine work. First it's too slow, and second I'd still have to use a cad program to design the part.



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    I often use my 3D printer to test fitment of parts and to verify the shape of a feature. I dont necessarily print the entire part. I often use the split body command to cut out the section I'm concerned about and then only print that piece. I also print using orange filament so I can make notes on it.

    Tormach PCNC 1100 Series 3 w/ Rapid Turn, Fusion 360


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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    Quote Originally Posted by sharmstr View Post
    I often use my 3D printer to test fitment of parts and to verify the shape of a feature. I dont necessarily print the entire part. I often use the split body command to cut out the section I'm concerned about and then only print that piece. I also print using orange filament so I can make notes on it.
    That makes sense, but printing out an entire part could take eons.



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    I do test prints of complicated parts that take forever to mill because of small tooling finishing intricate shapes. But that's more because I already had the printer. If I didn't, I'd just rough cut a test piece in something soft.

    The print might verify issues with the design, but most of those can now be dealt with using simulations in the CAD world anyway. For sure, sometimes it's better to be able to hold the thing in your hand and for that reason I won't be selling my printer in any hurry. Printing won't do jacques schitt to verify your toolpaths though and I'm not ashamed to admit that's where it usually goes sideways for me.



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    We don't have any in house CNC capability. For us, 3D printing is faster and cheaper than sending files and drawings out for machining. Some parts we design simply are not practical to prototype with machining such as parts that will be injection molded for production.

    As an additional tool for product development when you already have CNC machining capability, the benefits of 3D printing is mostly limited to parts that cannot be machined easily. Slicing is much lower effort than CAM, there are no fixtures required for 3D printing, there are no multiple setup parts and there is some geometry that simply can't be machined.



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    Quote Originally Posted by cncbuilt View Post
    Is anybody doing this often?

    How is the benefit paying off for you?

    What scenarios work better then others?

    Any tips?




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I occasionally 3D print parts before committing to metal. From a machinists perspective there is no value in 3D printing first, but from a design engineers perspective there is value in verifying the part fits correctly up front and I didn't make a stupid mistake. If I have a complex part that will require several hours (or a full day) to CAM, $150 piece of material and 8-10 hours of shop time to setup and run, then it makes sense to 3D print it first. Takes less than an hour to run the part through the slicer program and setup the printer. It may take a day or 3 to print but I don't have to attend to it.



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IMT View Post
    I occasionally 3D print parts before committing to metal. From a machinists perspective there is no value in 3D printing first, but from a design engineers perspective there is value in verifying the part fits correctly up front and I didn't make a stupid mistake. If I have a complex part that will require several hours (or a full day) to CAM, $150 piece of material and 8-10 hours of shop time to setup and run, then it makes sense to 3D print it first. Takes less than an hour to run the part through the slicer program and setup the printer. It may take a day or 3 to print but I don't have to attend to it.

    I agree this is inline with what I was thinking and makes sense to me. Even if it runs for 2 days the plastic cost next to nothing compared to making a mistake in metal.
    Some of the ideas and suggestions on using other materials to validate tool paths are really good ideas and I see how that would not work with a 3d printer since it’s two different gcode files sure it’s all gcode but a 3d slicer app produced one and a post processor the other so no dice. .



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    I think you guys may be bunching 3D printers into one hobby class machine. There are some better ones that do not cost that much and can be modified to print not only faster, but stronger prints with larger nozzles.
    I have 3 printers right now and they print production parts at production speeds. Two parts at a time on each.
    A big Fusion3 F400 HFR (not cheap), a small Crafbot Plus and a Flash Forge Creator Pro dual extruder. The two smaller ones have been modified with larger hardened steel nozzles and glass beds. A couple other mods too. The F400 came that way already with an E3D Volcano hotend.

    I print exclusively with Pet G except for using HIPS for support material on the dual extruder. Those are rather complicated parts and the hips just breaks away. It is water soluble too, but we don't need to dissolve the supports.
    That said, I don't always 3D print prototype parts. As mentioned, if you have the equipment, sometimes it's just faster and easier to machine them out.

    Last edited by LeeWay; 10-23-2017 at 12:34 PM.
    Lee


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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    If it's a machinable part, I would skip the 3D printing
    Way faster. I've used all the different methods (fdm,sls,sla,objet,etc.). It's been good for complicated geometry, thin wall (injection molded proto) parts. The best use I had was to print a pattern for investment cast aluminum parts.



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    Default Re: Doing a 3-d print before milling on a Tormach?

    We do a lot of 3D printing here at work. Mostly because many of the parts we print were outside the capabilities of our 2.5 axis version of Gibbs. Also because we have more engineers here than the single person that runs our job shop...namely, me. They will often run off jobs on the printer instead of getting in line to have their part machined. It actually works quite well in our environment, and I do a lot of post machining on their 3D printed parts...mostly things that a printer can't do well like tapped holes. I've also used the printer to make complex fixture holding for real parts.

    I do want a 3D printer for home as well. I don't just make finished parts from prints or models that people give me...I'm not that kind of machinist. I do all of the designing of my parts as well as test and troubleshoot them. Having a printer run off prototypes while I machine real parts to sell would be a big benefit to me.



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