Need Help! Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise


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Thread: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

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    Default Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quick question..... I'm working some parts in a soft jaw fixture G54, G55, G56 that I can only hold about 1/4" depth by 1" across each one. The stick up above the jaws by 1". So.... the laws of leverage...

    I've read about people cracking their Tormach vises but nowhere does it give an actual torque max. It just says to not over tighten using the vise handle. That seems pretty subjective to me.

    So, for those out there using a torque wrench, what are you torquing to? Right now I have it set to 30 ft lbs but I need more pressure I think. According to the Kurt D675 info that is about half way of the torque you can apply. https://www.kurtworkholding.com/down...%20English.pdf

    Now, I know this ain't no Kurt and I don't want to screw up the vise.

    Thoughts?

    Awall

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    Member Steve Seebold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Are you trying to hold 3 parts in one vise?

    If that's what you're trying to do it's going to
    Be next to impossible to do.

    You can hold 2 parts (one on each end of the vise)
    but that center part will most assuredly come
    flying out of the vise.

    If you want to make 3 parts, I would make them
    from one long piece then saw them apart and
    cut the bottom off.

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Hey Steve,

    Yes, I'm trying to hold three 1" x 1" blocks in one vise. They are machined to within +/- .0008 of each other. I'm using a .01 HDPE plastic spacer on the movable side to make up for the .0008 variations. So far, it's working..... would work better if I had machined the actual shape of the item into the soft jaws.

    However, my question still remains.... how much torque can be applied to the handle and not taking it to the max?

    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
    CoolCNCStuff_ on Instagram - CoolCNCStuff.com


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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    I don't care how hard you crank down on the vise, if the part is being held on one side by HDPE, it will NEVER be really secure. At least one of the three parts will ALWAYS be loosely held. Even with only a single part in there, HDPE is simply not capable of providing a high clamping force - it's FAR too compliant. Even tightening the handle entirely by hand, the jaws can exert thousand of pounds of clamping force, which will simply cause the HDPE to distort, and flow out of the way of the force.

    As already pointing out, holding three parts in a vise will NEVER work well! It can't. That's just basic physics...

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    I don't care how hard you crank down on the vise, if the part is being held on one side by HDPE, it will NEVER be really secure. At least one of the three parts will ALWAYS be loosely held. Even with only a single part in there, HDPE is simply not capable of providing a high clamping force - it's FAR too compliant. Even tightening the handle entirely by hand, the jaws can exert thousand of pounds of clamping force, which will simply cause the HDPE to distort, and flow out of the way of the force.

    As already pointing out, holding three parts in a vise will NEVER work well! It can't. That's just basic physics...

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    Okay.... got it - never hold three parts in a vise.

    However, would someone PLEASE answer the actual question? What torque can I put on the vise screw without damaging the vise? I'm guessing that if I follow the Kurt vise info and keep things in the 20 to 40 ft lbs I should be okay.

    Thanks for the information. I'll reset to run only two parts at a time - which makes sense. Or until I make some sort of individual clamping fixture.

    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
    CoolCNCStuff_ on Instagram - CoolCNCStuff.com


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    Member Steve Seebold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Another alternative, make 2 fixtures using Mitee Bites to hold your parts.

    With 2 fixtures you have one in the machine running and one on the
    bench being reloaded.

    If you try to ron 3 separate parts in one vise, it's not a matter of will
    one piece come flying out, its when and how much damage will it do.

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    I think the real answer to your question is that nobody knows the answer.

    What I do for holding multiple parts in a vice is to make soft jaws out of aluminum (or sometimes steel) and mill appropriate pockets to hold the parts. Aluminum is somewhat sticky so tends to hold pretty well, but if you apply enough cutting force it is possible to deform the aluminum.. On the movable jaw side, I use emory cloth, rough side towards the part, to have a semi compliant surface to take up any slack. Sometimes I just use notebook paper. Both add quite a bit of friction.

    A couple days ago, I built a 4 station vice jaw fixture to hold some 0.750 round stainless steel parts, worked perfectly. Drill, pocket, and profile. The advantage that I had is the parts were setting 0.700 deep and had 0.700 stick out so I had a pretty good grip on them. Didn't really require a lot of vice clamping pressure, just a snug up, and then a bump with my hand on the end of the wrench. Using a Kurt D675 vice.



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    [QUOTE=Jim Dawson;2089080]I think the real answer to your question is that nobody knows the answer.

    Right!

    I did push the rear jaw off a 4" brand X vise with too long a handle.............right at the keyway.
    I bought a 6" vise with an integral rear jaw, no chance of that happening again with me, it was expensive though.

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Ultimately, I believe Jim is correct. Unless Tormach puts out a number, the only way to tell is to test to destruction while monitoring torque.

    I suppose someone, somewhere could have broken one, but it's pretty unlikely they did it with a torque wrench, and got the number.

    Terry



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    However, would someone PLEASE answer the actual question? What torque can I put on the vise screw without damaging the vise? I'm guessing that if I follow the Kurt vise info and keep things in the 20 to 40 ft lbs I should be okay.
    Using a torque wrench on a vise seems to me like major over-kill. Using a normal combination wrench, it would be near impossible to over-tighten any vise. I have a handle for my 6" vise that consists of a hub and 3 radial "arms" about 4" long. I tighten the vise by whacking the arms with a dead blow hammer. When it stops moving, it's tight. For sure, 30 ft-lbs will not be near enough to do damage to any 4-6" vise, unless it's a real POS. My electric PDB torques the drawbar on my machines to 30 ft-lbs, and in 4 years I've had zero thread failures on any of them, nor has a single one of my customers ever reported a failure. That is on a drawbar with 7/16"-18 thread. Even a small vise will have larger threads than that. My 6" Glacern vise has something like a 1-1/8"x8 thread - you'd need a breaker bar and 4 foot handle extension to damage that.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Hey Ray, a drawbar has a 7/16-20 thread. LOL

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    Using a torque wrench on a vise seems to me like major over-kill.
    Regards,
    Ray L.
    For me it has to do with consistency. On this part I have a corner rounding endmill that I have to dial in in order to not get witness marks. Too tight and the radius is off on one side and has witness marks on the other. Same if it's too loose. So far using a torque wrench to do setups has all but eliminated those issue.

    I'm going to email Tormach on Tuesday and see if I can get some sort of answer.

    Thanks for all the input.

    Later,
    Awall

    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
    CoolCNCStuff_ on Instagram - CoolCNCStuff.com


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    Member Kenny Duval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    However, would someone PLEASE answer the actual question? What torque can I put on the vise screw without damaging the vise? I'm guessing that if I follow the Kurt vise info and keep things in the 20 to 40 ft lbs I should be okay.

    Thanks for the information. I'll reset to run only two parts at a time - which makes sense. Or until I make some sort of individual clamping fixture.
    Will 40 ft lbs of torque break the vise or vise screw?

    Shakes magic 8 ball.....

    Result : Uncertain. Please ask again.



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Duval View Post
    Will 40 ft lbs of torque break the vise or vise screw?

    Shakes magic 8 ball.....

    Result : Uncertain. Please ask again.
    Okay, you win with that one! Guess things keep pointing me to a Kurt vise..... at least they give you the max torque settings.

    BTW - Kenny, is that a WERA #1 plate in your photo? Used to do track days with NESBA back in the day (when they were a sound business 2005 thru 2007). Made it up to the advanced class then decided that the only way to go faster was to risk throwing it down the track at some point. Would say that it was the most expensive hobby I've had but this CNC stuff is pretty close. Of course, at least with the CNC stuff I get paid.....

    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
    CoolCNCStuff_ on Instagram - CoolCNCStuff.com


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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    Okay, you win with that one! Guess things keep pointing me to a Kurt vise..... at least they give you the max torque settings.

    BTW - Kenny, is that a WERA #1 plate in your photo? Used to do track days with NESBA back in the day (when they were a sound business 2005 thru 2007). Made it up to the advanced class then decided that the only way to go faster was to risk throwing it down the track at some point. Would say that it was the most expensive hobby I've had but this CNC stuff is pretty close. Of course, at least with the CNC stuff I get paid.....
    It is indeed. I'm a retired washed up old has been racer now.

    I think everyone here would love to give you an answer but without Tormach supplying the information it would basically be guessing.



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Duval View Post
    It is indeed. I'm a retired washed up old has been racer now..
    With FREAKIN #1 white plates!

    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
    CoolCNCStuff_ on Instagram - CoolCNCStuff.com


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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    With FREAKIN #1 white plates!
    That was 4 years ago. I'm 45 now and the kids just keep getting faster.



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Duval View Post
    That was 4 years ago. I'm 45 now and the kids just keep getting faster.
    Oh.... I was "schooled" by some of the old dudes in NESBA from time to time. Nothing like having them come pin stripe the inside of your bike in Turn 12 at Road Atlanta!

    Awall - The Body Armor Dude
    CoolCNCStuff_ on Instagram - CoolCNCStuff.com


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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver576 View Post
    Oh.... I was "schooled" by some of the old dudes in NESBA from time to time. Nothing like having them come pin stripe the inside of your bike in Turn 12 at Road Atlanta!
    WERA runs the new 12 section. No more bravery trying to keep it pinned on to the front straight. It's now a down hill braking zone with a 90 degree right hander.



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    Default Re: Torque Wrench Setting for Tormach 5" CNC Machinist Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Duval View Post
    It is indeed. I'm a retired washed up old has been racer now.

    I think everyone here would love to give you an answer but without Tormach supplying the information it would basically be guessing.
    Freakin' motorcyclists

    WW



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