Table mounted 3-jaw chuck

[mountaindew]

To help Nathian out!
I found the problem I was having with stock definition with multiple parts in sprutcam and where in the model tree tab and the machine tree tab to define the raw stock for the part location or offset.
There is an infinite number of ways to do this based on an open model design and I found the right way
Now its real simple to do this using g54-g59x offsets for me anyway! Needed to figure this out anyway for a number of different fixture and mini pallet setups I do and multiple 5c collet setups i like to do in one program. Thanks for the push to set down and figure it out!


CR
Let me know if you want some pointers in sprutcam on how I did this!

Didn't take long to setup a new template for 2 vices and now I know how to define stock and where in the machine tab tree

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Lets see a picture of your cam system showing 3 parts with 3 stock definitions at 3 offset locations with 3 fixtures and one operation performed at each offset. I know if this is hard to setup in sprutcam I bet it is equal hard to do in any other program. From what I see most high end programs work about the same. Anyway proof is in pictures or real life example not words I can say anything!

Watch some of the gazillions of videos showing what can be done with HSMWorks/HSMXpress/FusionCAM. If you are making two or more identical parts, it is as simple as defining all the operations to make a single part, then using a CAM pattern to offset all of those operations to the correct location(s) for the additional parts. No need at all for any additional fixture offsets. When using my 4X 3-jaw fixture, for example, I set G54 to the left-front-top corner of the plate all the chucks are mounted to, define the operations for the part in the first jaw, then pattern the operations to machine the other three parts. G54 is the ONLY fixture I use, and I only ever define the stock, fixture origin, CAM operations, etc. for the first part. The others are all handled entirely by the pattern. I only need to know the locations of the additional parts w.r.t. the position of the first part. Once the operations for the first part are defined, it takes perhaps 30 seconds to define the pattern, and generate the g-code to make all the parts - anything but hard. Suppose it is a trivial part that requires drilling only a single 1/8" hole and a single 1/4" hole in each part. The pattern allows me to either drill all the 1/8" holes, then drill all the 1/4" holes, OR, drill the first 1/8" hole, then the first 1/4" hole, then the second 1/8" hole, then the second 1/4", etc., again, WITHOUT touching the CAM operations, or other options (like re-ordering operations to minimize toolchanges). The pattern does it all, quickly and effortlessly.

Here is an absolutely trivial example, to show the difference between making one part, and 12 identical parts. Note the highlighted CAM operations in the left pane, which define the operations for the first part:



Wrap those operations in a pattern, and suddenly we're making 12 parts, instead of just one:



Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

FWIW - I tested Sprut ~5 years ago, while it was obviously capable of doing all kinds of wonderful things, I found it the UI and terminology it used really obtuse, and it was very complicated, often very convoluted, to get it to do even many simple things. I fact, I gave up when, after hours of playing with it, I still could not figure out how to make it do some very basic things. HSMWorks/HSMXpress/FusionCAM, OTOH, is, for the most part extremely powerful, and general logical, and easy to understand. HSMXpress, being free, is fantastic, if you can get by with 2.5D (which I can 95% of the time). I've found few, if any, things I've wanted to do that I couldn't do, and very few that were even at all difficult to figure out. When I first started using HSMXpress, probably 4 years ago, I found it very easy to learn, quickly wrote my own extensive POST that does everything I could ever dream of, and was using it to do productive work literally within one to two hours of first installing it. FusionCAM is, in terms of capability, simply amazing, and help is a forum post away, with access to the actual developers, and countless extremely knowledgeable users. I typically have the answers I need within an hour, if not mere minutes. I was lucky enough to get in one the deal Autodesk offered a few years ago for a Fusion Ultimate license with full 3D FusionCAM for $300/year - best money I ever spent on and CAD or CAM software, and I will very soon abandon Solidworks entirely for Fusion.

Regards,
Ray L.

[CadRhino]

Hi Ray
Thanks for the input.
You can do this basic approach in sprutcam, but with a little more input needed.
I have finally figured out creating multiple workpints in sprutcam now I need to reference it properly in sprutcam.
Thanks
Nathan

Watch some of the gazillions of videos showing what can be done with HSMWorks/HSMXpress/FusionCAM. If you are making two or more identical parts, it is as simple as defining all the operations to make a single part, then using a CAM pattern to offset all of those operations to the correct location(s) for the additional parts. No need at all for any additional fixture offsets. When using my 4X 3-jaw fixture, for example, I set G54 to the left-front-top corner of the plate all the chucks are mounted to, define the operations for the part in the first jaw, then pattern the operations to machine the other three parts. G54 is the ONLY fixture I use, and I only ever define the stock, fixture origin, CAM operations, etc. for the first part. The others are all handled entirely by the pattern. I only need to know the locations of the additional parts w.r.t. the position of the first part. Once the operations for the first part are defined, it takes perhaps 30 seconds to define the pattern, and generate the g-code to make all the parts - anything but hard. Suppose it is a trivial part that requires drilling only a single 1/8" hole and a single 1/4" hole in each part. The pattern allows me to either drill all the 1/8" holes, then drill all the 1/4" holes, OR, drill the first 1/8" hole, then the first 1/4" hole, then the second 1/8" hole, then the second 1/4", etc., again, WITHOUT touching the CAM operations, or other options (like re-ordering operations to minimize toolchanges). The pattern does it all, quickly and effortlessly.

Here is an absolutely trivial example, to show the difference between making one part, and 12 identical parts. Note the highlighted CAM operations in the left pane, which define the operations for the first part:



Wrap those operations in a pattern, and suddenly we're making 12 parts, instead of just one:



Regards,
Ray L.

[CadRhino]

Thanks for all your help, mountain!
I do rembering your sharing some insights to this wears ago and actually copied your post and was re-reading it to help shed insight.
I went through some sprutcam America videos and there is one on multiple offsets for sprutcam.
I am going to test it out later this week.
My main thing to figure out now is to input each wirkpiint correctly in path pilot.
Thanks, again for takeoff time to share your insights.



QUOTE=mountaindew;2084288]To help Nathian out!
I found the problem I was having with stock definition with multiple parts in sprutcam and where in the model tree tab and the machine tree tab to define the raw stock for the part location or offset.
There is an infinite number of ways to do this based on an open model design and I found the right way
Now its real simple to do this using g54-g59x offsets for me anyway! Needed to figure this out anyway for a number of different fixture and mini pallet setups I do and multiple 5c collet setups i like to do in one program. Thanks for the push to set down and figure it out!


CR
Let me know if you want some pointers in sprutcam on how I did this!

Didn't take long to setup a new template for 2 vices and now I know how to define stock and where in the machine tab tree
[/QUOTE]

[mountaindew]

Watch some of the gazillions of videos showing what can be done with HSMWorks/HSMXpress/FusionCAM. If you are making two or more identical parts, it is as simple as defining all the operations to make a single part, then using a CAM pattern to offset all of those operations to the correct location(s) for the additional parts. No need at all for any additional fixture offsets. When using my 4X 3-jaw fixture, for example, I set G54 to the left-front-top corner of the plate all the chucks are mounted to, define the operations for the part in the first jaw, then pattern the operations to machine the other three parts. G54 is the ONLY fixture I use, and I only ever define the stock, fixture origin, CAM operations, etc. for the first part. The others are all handled entirely by the pattern. I only need to know the locations of the additional parts w.r.t. the position of the first part. Once the operations for the first part are defined, it takes perhaps 30 seconds to define the pattern, and generate the g-code to make all the parts - anything but hard. Suppose it is a trivial part that requires drilling only a single 1/8" hole and a single 1/4" hole in each part. The pattern allows me to either drill all the 1/8" holes, then drill all the 1/4" holes, OR, drill the first 1/8" hole, then the first 1/4" hole, then the second 1/8" hole, then the second 1/4", etc., again, WITHOUT touching the CAM operations, or other options (like re-ordering operations to minimize toolchanges). The pattern does it all, quickly and effortlessly.

Here is an absolutely trivial example, to show the difference between making one part, and 12 identical parts. Note the highlighted CAM operations in the left pane, which define the operations for the first part:



Wrap those operations in a pattern, and suddenly we're making 12 parts, instead of just one:



Regards,
Ray L.

And this is very simple method in Sprutcam also. Good for simple 1 sided parts in an array and can be done with a single offset

I was asking the op about what his needs were to help! I had a ready made template I was using that he could load his parts into. The way I was using that template and the way it organized operations was not what he needed and that is why I asked. I changed and organized the operations as he needed it and also figured out a better place to define part stock for this type of setup. It worked for different sides in different locations but it was dificult to get right. For a single side it was easy to find the best place in cam tree to define the stock correctly for the parts in different locations "learned something new " .
No big deal for me because I save the templates blank "I have about a dozen" for future use. Simple to load one and load the part models into then setup ops and you done. Cuts cam work in half or more! . When I load my models I have half the work done all fixtures and offsets are there the cam tree is organized for the normal ops like every part has drill, contour, engrave................Makes the process easy and your out at the mill making good parts with no drama, no red button, no collisions, no tool breaks, only the occasional drill bit wander or slip Not bad for the average hobbyist!

Anyway I can help him with his software. I also understand why he wanted the 3 offsets because you need to find those on the machine unless you build and extremely precise fixture pate with the chucks mounted very precisely on it. Even then you would need to align that plate down the x axis "no fun imho" each time you used it. With 3 offsets all you need is a round bar and indicate each chuck. that would take 5 minutes and be very precise. no need to fuss with the plate.

Also I seen his very nice looking chucks and plates I wanted to help him get them into use

Just trying to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Sorry I will let Ray help people on this forum with sprutcam

[mountaindew]

Follow up on the example above. I found you cant group operations in the machining tree. Sprutcam will get confused with machining results from previous part. Simple fix is to remove the grouping and rename the operations this eliminates a problem I always had with this type of setup.



This works very nice and straight forward to setup parts in! Guess this is a good reason to order a shiny new matching Tormach vise!

[C*H*U*D]

...I will very soon abandon Solidworks entirely for Fusion.

That's what I did for my home business...Fusion 360 only now. At work we abandoned our 2.5 GibbsCAM for HSMXpress (my company will never leave Solidworks). I actually like Gibbs, but I'm happy with the change.

Just trying to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Sorry I will let Ray help people on this forum with sprutcam

I like that there are so many different CAM users in the Tormach section here. I'm only guessing that Fusion has the user base lead, but I know there are Gibbs and Sprut users here too. If I ever need to do something in Sprut again, and have a question, I'm hitting you up! :-)

[mountaindew]

That's what I did for my home business...Fusion 360 only now. At work we abandoned our 2.5 GibbsCAM for HSMXpress (my company will never leave Solidworks). I actually like Gibbs, but I'm happy with the change.





I like that there are so many different CAM users in the Tormach section here. I'm only guessing that Fusion has the user base lead, but I know there are Gibbs and Sprut users here too. If I ever need to do something in Sprut again, and have a question, I'm hitting you up! :-)

I drank the Sprutcam Koolaid a few years back. Fusion was in beta at that time! Still I would like to use and learn fusion because it now has a huge user base and the product is good. Sprutcam only has 4th axis ops that are better maybe . I bet not for long! Anyway I need to stay on my path because learning these programs is not easy and I invested time working with tormach slb 15 lathe side of the program. If I ever get one

[CadRhino]

Hi mountain
I am glad you are mapping out Sprutcam for the rest of us as well.
Btw, I thought you got a slant pro. Let us know if you do spring for one.

I drank the Sprutcam Koolaid a few years back. Fusion was in beta at that time! Still I would like to use and learn fusion because it now has a huge user base and the product is good. Sprutcam only has 4th axis ops that are better maybe . I bet not for long! Anyway I need to stay on my path because learning these programs is not easy and I invested time working with tormach slb 15 lathe side of the program. If I ever get one

[mountaindew]

Hi mountain
I am glad you are mapping out Sprutcam for the rest of us as well.
Btw, I thought you got a slant pro. Let us know if you do spring for one.

Looks to be some time from now
Ordered one 2 years ago. They had only one in stock in Vegas. Was called for jury duty the next day and following week had to cancel the order. Then my brain leaked during jury duty and I spent the next year and that money fixing that problem I blame it on Sprutcam lol or If I could, like everyone else does these days Trump. But he was not around to blame back then. These days the cost for power here is so bad I have spent 2k$ replacing all my shop lights and house lights to led. 3k replacing my home AC condenser unit to a bigger more efficient one. looking at spending $20k not on a lathe but solar grid for my home. I live in solar zone 2. It would add $20k value to my home and pay for itself in 10- 15 years based on todays cost of power and they lobby for it to go up every 6 months so its almost a no brainer. Then my power bill would be a much more manageable cost, I hope. I bet by then the state or local puc here will figure out how to charge me for my own power I produce. Normal off topic discussion and rant Sorry!

[CadRhino]

I would do the solar panels! Get the tax credits while you can. Nothing against the slant pro

Looks to be some time from now
Ordered one 2 years ago. They had only one in stock in Vegas. Was called for jury duty the next day and following week had to cancel the order. Then my brain leaked during jury duty and I spent the next year and that money fixing that problem I blame it on Sprutcam lol or If I could, like everyone else does these days Trump. But he was not around to blame back then. These days the cost for power here is so bad I have spent 2k$ replacing all my shop lights and house lights to led. 3k replacing my home AC condenser unit to a bigger more efficient one. looking at spending $20k not on a lathe but solar grid for my home. I live in solar zone 2. It would add $20k value to my home and pay for itself in 10- 15 years based on todays cost of power and they lobby for it to go up every 6 months so its almost a no brainer. Then my power bill would be a much more manageable cost, I hope. I bet by then the state or local puc here will figure out how to charge me for my own power I produce. Normal off topic discussion and rant Sorry!

[mountaindew]

I would do the solar panels! Get the tax credits while you can. Nothing against the slant pro

NO TAX CREDIT. Only a viable project if It pays for itself in lower power cost over time. 10 years ago it would cost $40k to do this and a 25 year life span. The numbers just didnt work. Now I run the numbers and they are marginal but our puc is wanting to raise rates even more so over time the numbers will pay back faster even. The cost of panels and controls at present I dont think will go down more unless china floods the market again with panels like right now. Anyway I always wanted to own my own puc "private utility company"
Besides I failed to mention it would be best if I put those panels on a 24x30 garage/shop roof facing south! Then I would have more room for my projects and tools!