Machining noise, Tormach vs VMC

[Dallas J]

Hey guys, one of my limitations at times is the amount of noise I can make (kid is in bed by the time I can work at night) and Ive noticed in videos of VF2s that they seem to be quite a bit quieter than the tormach in roughing. One of the latest vids from John where he's having a discussion with Pierson Pallet guy in front of a VF2 doing some moderate roughing. The tormach running a 1/2" end mill or especially a Shearhog, there's no chance you're having a conversation near the machine.

So my thought is that a stiffer machine may just not resonated at much and absorb those vibrations and sound? Hopefully some of you machinist veterans around bigger machines can shine some light on it.

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[WOTDesigns]

while there are there are quite a few other factors but yes you are absolutely 100% correct all other things being equal. I run the exact same programs on my haas tm2p and my om2a. At least the roughing routines with a 60 degree chamfer Mill are the same 5000 RPM 0.01" constant engagement step over 114 parts back-to-back-to-back-to-back and I can tell you that at 80 ipm on both machines while the OM does it faster the OM sounds about 10 times louder. That's the same feeds and speeds same Parts same fixtures. OM is about 1500 lb the TM is about 5000 pounds which is about the difference between a tormach and a mini Mill or the one I'm about to buy later this year which is the DT2 since I have absolutely no use for 40 taper TOOLING on these parts and spindle speed is far more important to me.

The other thing to consider with my experience on Haas machines is that at full spindle speed some have a tendency to get really whiny if they have a belt drive. I am looking forward to the direct drive since I have a feeling it'll knock a few DB off the overall noise. It took two technicians on warranty call and finally finding my own information and doing it myself to get the TM belt not to squeal

[Steve Seebold]

Hey Brian, something to consider before you buy your DT2 is BT30 tooling is more expensive than CAT 40 tooling. And you already have one machine that takes CAT 40 tooling.

I have a neighbor who has 2 DM2 machines and I have watched them change tools in less than 2 seconds chip to chip. Those machines are just scary fast.

[WOTDesigns]

Hey Brian, something to consider before you buy your DT2 is BT30 tooling is more expensive than CAT 40 tooling. And you already have one machine that takes CAT 40 tooling.

I have a neighbor who has 2 DM2 machines and I have watched them change tools in less than 2 seconds chip to chip. Those machines are just scary fast.

I looked at both. $10,000 price difference pays for all the tools I need with $8,000 left over which is 12% of another DT2. the actual quote with probe and options only comes out to $66K for the DT2 and 98% of the time I'm running 1/8" tools. If I was using it for Job Shop work I would definitely go with the DM but this is production for parts and they're literally made for the DTs. Honestly with high speed Machining and modern toolpaths it's almost made tool holder size go to less important than floor space and cycle times. I will most likely have the machine locked at 50% Rapids and if there's the ability of slow the tool change down I would do that too. These parts only change tools 6 times per hour so I would prefer less wear and tear versus an extra 3 seconds per hour of time saved

[mountaindew]

Wow if the budget allows I would go to mini or larger mill with as mentioned above high speed spindle for small tools. My tormach 1100 cutting parts is music to my ears when things are set right the 5100 rpm is loud but poor feed, speed, quality of cutter make considerably more sound then mill in operation. Also as mentioned above weight and mill rigidity make a difference even the thickness of the concrete under that machine.
I find air compressors, shop vacs, grinders and silly tools like part tumblers/ cleaners far more annoying. Easy to mitigate a cnc mill noise. A very effective way to control sound is to buy 2ft wide 8 x long strips of carpet from walmart and hang from ceiling in a couple locations. The more the better but overall sound level will go down real fast. They dont get in the way and trap noise very well. If your real cool you hang flags or other fancy fabrics. I watch tv and do other things like talk on the phone all the time in my shop.
I moved air compressor and shop vac into a small garden storage shed outside my garage and now I dont flinch when air compressor cycles and I keep a cleaner shop because I dont here the vac running.

[MFchief]

Mike, I agree, even though it is not the loudest tool in the shop,my vibratory tumbler is, by far, the most annoying.
Terry

[jeffrey001]

Mike, I agree, even though it is not the loudest tool in the shop,my vibratory tumbler is, by far, the most annoying.
Terry

I tought it was when you wife was in the shop

Jeff

[MFchief]

Well, putting that in writing would be detrimental to my health !

Terry

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Unless you have a rather large house, I think any thoughts of running any CNC machine while kids are sleeping is quite unrealistic...

Regards,
Ray L.

[MichaelHenry]

Unless you have a rather large house, I think any thoughts of running any CNC machine while kids are sleeping is quite unrealistic...

Regards,
Ray L.

I have a Tormach 1100 in our basement and it doesn't wake my my wife, who is a light sleeper. Our bdroom is on the 2nd floor and the mill is in the basement of our townhome so that could make a difference. Ovcer the years we've never heard complaints from any of our next door neighbors either.

[wildwhl]

There are several ways to mitigate noise with the Tormach (and likely other VMCs too). For me I've had great success with a home brew enclosure, silencing the compressor as much as possible (it's in the deluxe stand where the CPU used to live), swapping out the shaft mounted fan on the spindle motor for an electric fan, and careful dialing in of speeds/feeds. Sometimes I'll compromise max MRR for a quieter operation.

And sometimes, it's just flat out noisy. Ball end mills, long reach tooling, less than rigid fixtures, shear hogs and more are just noisy - no way around it. A machine with more horsepower probably be even moreso, but then again said machine might have more noise damping due to enclosure, rigidity etc.

Generally, our 1100 peaks around 77 db (not calibrated, just an iOS app) these days and that is normally during tool change/compressor or compressed air noise. Some cutting is well above that but I avoid when I can. 1/2" 3 fl end mill at .600 DOC and .125 WOC, 3750 RPM and 40 IPM is working great as of late, and running about 71-72 db during adaptive clearing ops, where the same recipe before I would often see 90+ db.

Not sure any of that is helpful or not. In general I have to agree - running a mill in your attached garage space while children are sleeping is likely to prove less than ideal.

WW

[Dallas J]

Running a 3/8" or smaller end mill is no big deal other than running up against the HP limit. Its using 2flute 1/2" and 3/4" shear hog where noise is really loud. Like wear ear muffs if youre anywhere near it. Certainly over 100db with the shearhog when pushing over 3ci/m.

I of course ask more as ammo for upgrading of course

[joshetect]

If sound is a big issue, there are STC rated assemblies that can greatly reduce the noise transmitted to other rooms. With a few of those you also get a much higher fire rating if there were to be a fire where your machine is.

http://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_M...s-en-SA200.pdf

[syscore]

This is a neat thread. When I bought my 1100 I was certainly interested in noise since I am in an attached garage and work during the day. My house is concrete block construction, so that might help some. For air, I use the California Air compressor that Tormach offers (I got mine on Amazon though). It is amazingly quiet (as long as you install the filter). But I am able to do a lot of work late at night, as long as I keep the speeds down. The only things I stay away from after 10:00 pm is hogging and fly cutting. I work mostly with aluminum and with lower speeds and the right cutters, it isn't that loud. Also, you can use WD-40 and a chip brush, and bypass the air altogether if that is an issue. Usually, I use flood coolant, but late at night I use WD-40 and air. At some point I will add mist. The stock fan is ok (can't hear it outside the garage) and the motor fan doesn't make a lot of noise because I am using low RPM. Also, watch out for (and solve) any resonant frequencies with the steppers/table/cabinet.