Reply with QuoteYep. Multiple times, many different designs. Do a search on this forum for auxillary spindle and similar keywords.Originally Posted by LazyMan
10K Spindle on 1100?
Anyone every do this? I'm finding the limiting factor on my 1100 to be the spindle speed as I'm machining a lot of small plastic parts. I'm not interested in the highspeed spindle kit because does not have fixed height tooling.
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Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
Yep. Multiple times, many different designs. Do a search on this forum for auxillary spindle and similar keywords.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
Thanks, guys but I I meant 10k main spindle as I said I wasn't interested in spindles without fixed height tooling (TTS). Changing out ER collets and touching off every tool is just too much hassle for me.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
Ah. Nope, haven't seen one like that on the 1100. I watch this and related forums fairly closely, would likely remember. The Tormach site says the HSS kits are "ER20", so I presume that means no positive indexing there either.
If you find a way to do that easily there would be a fair bit of interest.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
I have thought about a 10K spindle too, I was thinking about possibly a 3600 rpm drive motor and inverter, at double the HP rating, just a thought.
Also a variable reducer (Reeves Drive type) and a 3600 motor 1.5 HP, similar to the drive speed reducer on a Bridgeport, to bring the torque back up at low rpm. The way Tormach accomplishes their speed reduction is with a VFD the torque drops off on both ends of the RPM range.
Then after all this the spindle and drive will need to be balanced. I guess it depends on what you want to spend in both money and time to accomplish this??
All this makes the bolt on 10K spindle tool changes not look so bad ............
Just my opinion and everyone has one of those..
mike sr
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
I was thinking along the lines of using a spindle from a 770. Tormach should really consider offering some kind of upgrade. I would be willing to spend the money but not the time. Smaller tooling and high RPM on light weight machines mixes very well. Its a shame that their flagship machine cant be easily upgraded to match performance of their smaller machines.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
What would be involved in adapting a 770 spindle cartridge into an 1100? I've never seen a 770 in person, but I suppose it is smaller in diameter and length.
Another possibility would be to rebuild the 1100 spindle with ceramic bearings, have it balanced and find/make a new set of pulleys.
Last edited by IMT; 06-05-2017 at 12:58 PM.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
i don't know what the motor RPM is now, but before you go to the expense of a new motor and the electronics to go with it, I would seriously consider having the motor that's already in the machine rewound to make it a 2 speed motor. I'm no electrical engineer, but that would make a lot more sense to me than just buying a new motor.
You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
There are other alternatives available from time to time if you are sufficiently patient. I picked this R8 attachment up on eBay some time ago; a nearly new air powered turbine grinder with tooling and a full set of collets. I have not measured the speed but it is in the 10's of thousands RPM. It is ideal for engraving, at least for me.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
The WuXi bearing in the 1100 is number 7008C/P5 DT (lower spindle bearing- upper is surely different, but smaller and thus likely higher speed limit). WuXi says this bearing can run at 8K rpm greased, or 11K with oil lube. Could be that simply changing the lubrication would allow a simple spindle pulley mod. Buy a spare 1100 spindle, use light oil lube (spindle oil, not grease, that's about SUS 60 oil or something more engineered), and set it up with a new set of pulleys and maybe some better way to preload than Tormach currently uses (Keen had a good design, see that thread). (http://wuxi-bearing.com/en/product02.asp?plt=6)
I'd probably convert the low range pulley to a 10K range, leaving the current high range in place. Haven't looked, but that probably means a new pulley set- both motor and spindle.
Steady 10K running might eat a set of bearings eventually, and some way to regularly oil them might be a good idea. And of course Tormach would consider this an out-of-design-spec use, so all risk is on the user.
One could also replace the lower bearing pair with 40mm x 68 x 15 bearings with a better speed rating, but that's a slog through a lot of catalogs. I'd take a chance on the current bearings doing OK with a change in lubrication and a better preload system.
Incidentally. At one point, Tormach was quite open to discussions about machine modification. That was a time when Tormach was seeking notice and market share, but may still be true; they saw the 1100 as a customizable building block. If one got to the right person at Tormach, they might provide some help. That certainly happened in the early years.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
I believe to run at the oil lube maximum rpm the lubrication has to be steady, i.e. some type of continuous delivery system.
Boca Bearing makes a ceramic ball bearing in that size rated for 26K with grease lube. About 3X the price of bearings from Tormach. https://www.bocabearings.com/product...t-p4s-ul-21163
They also have a steel version rated for 20K. https://www.bocabearings.com/product...t-p4s-ul-21162
With either case the speed rating assumes the design can remove heat fast enough to keep the bearing from exceeding the maximum operating temperature (121C, 250F).
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
I would change both speed ranges some. Perhaps set the low range at 130-2600 (60hz=1300rpm) and high range at 500-10K (60hz=5K).
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
There's probably enough heat sink in the head, which is in the motor fan path (and if you have the fan mod, there's definitely serious air hitting the housing). Tormach specs its spindle temp as "less than" either 150F or 180F (depends on which tech document/support person you get) when the preload is correct. I'd worry a bit about ceramic bearings under intermittent load (and that may be a lack of knowledge, not a reasonable concern). No idea whether there has to be a continuous oil delivery system or just an acceptable film. Some kind of slinger would be possible, I think; that might do it.
All that said, a single steel Boca bearing is the same price as the Tormach set (ie, twice the price for two of them). And P4 rather than P5. If I were replacing my Tormach bearings now, I'd be very tempted to drop in a set of those instead of the cheaper but lower rated WuXi bearings, and have the ability to play pulley games down the road. 10-15K should be within reach.
Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
I think there was a guy on the FB Group that sent his spindle off to a place called Precision Machine Rebuilding for new spindle bearings and spindle balance then was doing a 3HP servo spindle for 10K+ RPM ill see if i can find the link.
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Re: 10K Spindle on 1100?
One additional thought on this.
The Tormach 770 motor is 3360 rpm; the 1100 motor is 1715. A 770 motor -according to some offline recent discussion-can be controlled by the same SK Commander VFD as is used in the 1100. For the price of a motor ($245) and a bit of machining, it should be fairly easy to do a motor/baseplate/motor pulley swapout on the 1100. Less HP, but 10K rpm. At first glance, that seems like a viable alternative. Presuming the 770 motor fits the 1100 hole, of course, and with a bit of fiddling with the VFD parameters. Still might be smart to upgrade bearings, too.
Anybody tried that?
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