What's your workflow when a program uses ATC tools but also manual loading tools ?

[ovisopa]

I'm making baby steps in using the Tormach PCNC, also because Fusion 360 is new to me but also because I have never used other mill with an ATC, I just worked in the last 4 years with my other Gantry style router that doesn't have an ATC, I unscrew the ER20 collet in some days maybe 100 times / day, because I only do very few parts the same, each part is different, and some parts uses even 8 tools.

So, now with the Tormach I placed 10 tools in the ATC, maybe in time I will remove some that are not used as often, but now I have the tools setup in the tooltable, also in Fusion 360 tool library, but for a small part that I work now I also need to use some tools that are not in the ATC, but I saved each one in both Pathpilot and Fusion.

The first question is what exactly you do when the program stops and waits for me to remove a tool manually and than fetch a new one from the ATC, I'm especially concerned about the note in the power drawbar manual that I should not close the collet without a tool inserted. While a program is running the tabs, including the ATC one are hidden so I can't press the OPEN / CLOSE button to keep the collet open.pressing the foot pedal also I don't think is an option, are you locking the collet open from the RELEASE and LOCK buttons (I found that is not so easy, I have to try multiple times to keep it open using Press and Hold RELEASE and than pressing and releasing HOLD)



So please, can you guys tell me what are the steps you doo when working in the same program with tools from ATC but also manual loading tools.

Also what about when using drills especially, you prepare each drill in a TTS holder, measure it and save it in tool table before starting the program? Or you do this when "live" when you are asked by pathpilot to manually insert a new tools?

Any advices are appreciated. Thanks.

Similar Threads:

• HSMXpress problem loading turning tools
• Need Help!- Bridgeport 1000/22 Loading Tools

[Steve Seebold]

I don't have the ATC on my 6 year old PCNC1100. I have run as many as 9 tools on some parts so when I do that, I will run multiple vises or I will make fixtures that hold multiple parts.

I don't have the ATC because it wasn't available when I bought my machine. AND I'm still running the Mach III operating system.

[ovisopa]

Manual changing, with the power drawbar is ok, I just press the foot pedal and swap tools, it's a fast job, but when combined with ATC tool changing, if I don't lock the collet in the open position, the collet will be closed for a few seconds without any tool in it, ant there is that note in the manual that this action should be avoide, as I understood that note. If the ATC tab was visible on the screen after the program was started, it will be an easier job, just pressing a button and then CYCLE START, but all the tabs are hidden when the program is running - I use Pathpilot.

Also I don't know if anyone is swaping unused tools in the ATC with the ones it needs for the next part to mill, this way it could make the entire part only with ATC, no manual tool changes, I'm sure the procedure of swapping tools is not complicated, but also I don't know if anyone is doing this for each new part, just to have all the tools in the ATC.

I don't have multiple vises, and also it seems I didn't chosed the correct vise, when I purchased the mill in december there ware no Tormach vises in stock so I chosed the other available , a precision screwless vise, but I'm having a hard time holding the material with this if the material is not perfectly parallel, even an 0.1mm difference was enough to have the steel moving in the vise, and braking one flute of the endmill.. but this is a different story I usually need to make only 1 or 2 parts, and until now milling at most 2 face of the material

[Dozer56]

I think if I had an ATC I would avoid manual tool changes when running parts as much as possible. I think possibly I would try to group the machining together with the 10 tools loaded in the tool changer then switch programs and tools in the tool changer and run that program to avoid making manual to changes in the middle of making parts.
I don't know if this is possible having never used An ATC but I think there should be some better solution if you have a program that uses more tools than the ATC holds if you can't change the cam to use 10 tools during that process.

[ovisopa]

One way I think of is, just before cycle start to remove unused tools from ATC and insert the new ones that are needed in the current program, as I understood, I haven't tried yet, the tools can be removed from the ATC and keep the same tool numbers as before, the ATC position 3 doesn't mean it needs to hold tool #3, so if I remove tool #3 from ATC, that tool will still be tool #3 but it won't be anymore in the ATC, and pathpilot knows it, it will ask to manually insert if it's needed.
But I don't know what people that have an ATC are actually doing this or they have another workflow ?

Also I'm sure there are times that 10 tools are not enough and manual tool changing is still needed, this is why I was curious how you guys are doing this.

I have played again with the 2 buttons pendant (RELEASE & LOCK) that operate the drawbar, I think previeously I pressed to quick the lock button, this is why I had a hard time making drawbar lock in the open position from this device, but now if I wait just a little, untill the tool is actually released and only than press LOCK, it keeps it locked.

[CadRhino]

I have the atc and dozers response is what I do. You can get creative with minimizing tools and even get specialized drill bits that have (2) drill sizes per bit.

I think if I had an ATC I would avoid manual tool changes when running parts as much as possible. I think possibly I would try to group the machining together with the 10 tools loaded in the tool changer then switch programs and tools in the tool changer and run that program to avoid making manual to changes in the middle of making parts.
I don't know if this is possible having never used An ATC but I think there should be some better solution if you have a program that uses more tools than the ATC holds if you can't change the cam to use 10 tools during that process.

[ovisopa]

I have the atc and dozers response is what I do. You can get creative with minimizing tools and even get specialized drill bits that have (2) drill sizes per bit.

I finished the part I was strugling with in the last days just now, one thing I noticed is that the tool is not changed automatically, even if the next tool is in the toolchanger , probably there is a setting, but the machine didn't changed it automatically, I had to cycle start each time.

Probably on most of the parts I need to make, 10 tools are enough, I will try to add them in the ATC, just before I start milling the part, but now as I tried many end mills and unfortunately broke a few, I had to change a lot of them, from the ones I had initially mounted in the ATC, I only used 3 or 4 tools

Also about the coolant nozzle, I found out that I have to adjust it for every tool, do you guys do the same, adjust the nozzle for each tool ? I was thinking to put another coolant pipe and have the coolant from 2 sides, at some positions, because of the depth it was machining, and 15mm it's not much , the coolant was hitting the part that was milled, not the tool because the part was between the tool and the position of the nozzle.

Did you guys mounted multiple coolant nozzles ?

[nitewatchman]

I have an ATC and I use what to me is a much simpler system.

I program the part using various means and decide which tool is needed to do each operation and code accordingly. I then load the required tools in the tool tray, position my toolsetter under the tool tip, push the button on the ATC screen to touch off the entire tool tray which automatically measures and loads all offsets, set zero on a single tool using a 1-2-3 block and start the first part. I want to use the optimum tool for the operation not necessarily what is in a tool table plus setting tools as I described takes no time at all.

If I need a tool which is too long or big for the tool tray, I program it in the same fashion. After the tool is called if it is not in the tool tray PP will prompt you to manually load and unload.

YMMV

gary

[wildwhl]

When I have a mix of tools that are in the ATC and a manual tool change or two, I simply (where possible) run the manual tool change op last in sequence (again, if it makes sense). Generally, I don't need more that 10 tools per programmed set of operations so the the ATC handles all the changes. However, there are times that I prefer not to swap out tools from the ATC, even though it's dead simple. So, the PCNC simply stores the tool in the ATC and waits for me to insert the manual tool change tool. Then, when that operation is complete it waits for me to remove said tool and hit cycle start again.

This can be a great place to plan breaks: lunch, lights out machining, chip clearing, etc.

WW

[CadRhino]

What is 'lights out machining'?

When I have a mix of tools that are in the ATC and a manual tool change or two, I simply (where possible) run the manual tool change op last in sequence (again, if it makes sense). Generally, I don't need more that 10 tools per programmed set of operations so the the ATC handles all the changes. However, there are times that I prefer not to swap out tools from the ATC, even though it's dead simple. So, the PCNC simply stores the tool in the ATC and waits for me to insert the manual tool change tool. Then, when that operation is complete it waits for me to remove said tool and hit cycle start again.

This can be a great place to plan breaks: lunch, lights out machining, chip clearing, etc.

WW

[jonniemac]

What is 'lights out machining'?

Set the machine to running, turn off the shop lights and go home for the night. The hope is that when you return in the morning you have a batch of parts waiting for you.

[ovisopa]

...I then load the required tools in the tool tray, position my toolsetter under the tool tip, push the button on the ATC screen to touch off the entire tool tray which automatically measures and loads all offsets...

This is quite a awesome feature, but I haven't used it yet as I think it's more complicated because I needed to first set Z zero on a flat area, not on the stock which is quite small, so I first needed to
1. plug in the probe, set Z zero on the table, than
2. plug in the ETS and measure tool
3. than plug in the probe again to set Z zero on the stock


My current workflow for measuring tools (anyway, until now I only measured around 20 tools on the tormach .. ) is as follow, using the Tormach Height Gauge:

1. remove the tool from the spindle and place it in the granite block
2. with the height gauge I first set Z zero on the granite block, than move the scale up to measure the tool
3. press the DATA button on the small USB connection kit .. and that's it

But anyway I will definitely try because it's much quicker to measure all tools at once, that's awesome, to press a button to measure all tools.

When I have a mix of tools that are in the ATC and a manual tool change or two, I simply (where possible) run the manual tool change op last in sequence (again, if it makes sense). Generally, I don't need more that 10 tools per programmed set of operations so the the ATC handles all the changes. However, there are times that I prefer not to swap out tools from the ATC, even though it's dead simple. So, the PCNC simply stores the tool in the ATC and waits for me to insert the manual tool change tool. Then, when that operation is complete it waits for me to remove said tool and hit cycle start again.

This can be a great place to plan breaks: lunch, lights out machining, chip clearing, etc.

WW

I'm also not needing 10 tools on one part (so far), but it's about not having the tools in the ATC, now I have mostly all tools in the spindle for steel machining, and only 2 tools are for aluminum. Now that I have played more with changing the tools, I feel more comfortable changing tools manually, when it asks me to manually insert the tool #x.

I think by "lights out machining" he means to leave the machine unattended while automatically milling a part (good time for a launch brake, or CAM'ing another part, I do this but my office is just the next door, in 5 seconds I'm in front of the CNC if I hear a weird sound).

[nitewatchman]

This is quite a awesome feature, but I haven't used it yet as I think it's more complicated because I needed to first set Z zero on a flat area, not on the stock which is quite small, so I first needed to

Actually until you set zero on the part all the tool length offsets are relative to the nose of the spindle so you may place the ETS where ever you want on the table, on a vise, on the fixture and measure the lengths. Most of my fixtures are for larger parts and have a designated bored hole that defines x and y zero and a plane surface that establishes z zero. I place the ETS on the plane surface then indicate (or now probe with an MP3) the hole for x & y zero and then measure the tools. After all the offsets are loaded, I set z with a 1-2-3 block and we are ready to go.