Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?


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Thread: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

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    Default Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Hi All,

    I've got a 770 with a manual oiler, that only sees action in spurts. I.E., there will be 2 weeks of daily use, and 2 weeks of downtime, due to the R&D environment I'm in.

    When leaving the machine alone for 2 to 4 weeks, there are 3 problem oil points that clog-up and stop flowing, without fail! Now, I'm sure those points have something off (I'm not sure if it's debris after the orifice, or if it's a partially clogged orifice, or whatnot). But, there has to be a better solution... an oil there that can sit in the machine for a few months, without having to dispose of it and do a WD-40 flush as in the Tormach white paper.

    I'm afraid that when I move-on, the crew left behind will neglect to cycle the oil pumps, so the machine will sit for 6 months or so before use.

    Know of anything out there that would perform better in this situation?

    Thanks,

    Mike

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    I don't have Tormach, but I use 90wt mineral gear oil in my oiler. This oil does not have any special additives in it, available at your local auto parts or farm supply. Also AW46 hydraulic oil will work fine.

    I'll put on my flame suit now



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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Mike, what are you using for way oil now?



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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    I don't have Tormach, but I use 90wt mineral gear oil in my oiler. This oil does not have any special additives in it, available at your local auto parts or farm supply. Also AW46 hydraulic oil will work fine.

    I'll put on my flame suit now
    IMHO you should be very careful what you use for way lube on a Tormach machine. The machine ways have bonded PTFE filled acetyl sliding surfaces and I would expect some lubricants like hydraulic oils could damage the coating. IN short dont experiment and use only APPROVED lubes!



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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedneckPhysics View Post
    Hi All,

    I've got a 770 with a manual oiler, that only sees action in spurts. I.E., there will be 2 weeks of daily use, and 2 weeks of downtime, due to the R&D environment I'm in.

    When leaving the machine alone for 2 to 4 weeks, there are 3 problem oil points that clog-up and stop flowing, without fail! Now, I'm sure those points have something off (I'm not sure if it's debris after the orifice, or if it's a partially clogged orifice, or whatnot). But, there has to be a better solution... an oil there that can sit in the machine for a few months, without having to dispose of it and do a WD-40 flush as in the Tormach white paper.

    I'm afraid that when I move-on, the crew left behind will neglect to cycle the oil pumps, so the machine will sit for 6 months or so before use.

    Know of anything out there that would perform better in this situation?

    Thanks,

    Mike
    Every single machine I have ever owned or used has had oiling problems. The oil is NOT the problem. In every case, one or more of the cheap check/flow-control valves has clogged, starving one or more circuits. Replacing the valve simply delays the inevitable - another clog in another circuit. I finally banished my problems for good, by re-plumbing the whole system with a multi-way selector valve (a 14-way valve on my current machine) that allows me to pressure feed a precise volume of oil to each circuit, ONE circuit at a time, using an air-pressurized oil reservoir, and eliminating the troublesome check/flow control valves entirely. I have not had a single problem since doing the re-plumbing, and I can now control exactly how much oil goes to each individual circuit. Someday, when I get the time, the valve will be motorized, and a micro-controller will control oiling using a pre-defined schedule based on actual spindle on-time and the needs of each circuit. The current system (valve and reservoir) took only a few hours to fabricate, mostly out of scrap materials. The real work was in taking the machine apart enough to rip out and re-plumb all the oil lines, and bring the 14 new lines to a single point at the top of the column (to help facilitate the oil lines draining into their oiling points).

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    I've been using Mobil Vactra #2 way oil for the pat 10 years and have been having good luck with that, though I'll probably change to Hangsterfer's Way Oil when the Vactra #2 bottle is empty. Both McMaster's and Grainger sell the Vactra in 1-gal bottles for $25-30 and at you your mill operating time would probably last for a few years.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    I've been using Mobil Vactra #2 way oil for the pat 10 years and have been having good luck with that, though I'll probably change to Hangsterfer's Way Oil when the Vactra #2 bottle is empty. Both McMaster's and Grainger sell the Vactra in 1-gal bottles for $25-30 and at you your mill operating time would probably last for a few years.
    I use Mobil Vactra #2 as well. I've been using it for about 30 years with absolutely no problems.

    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.


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    Great post.
    In my naivety, how do you check for proper oil distribution? Do you take all the way covers off and pump the oil and see where it is not coming out?
    In three years of owning my machine I have not done this.
    I have been using tornachs Perlube and will switch to vactra when that runs out.
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedneckPhysics View Post
    Hi All,

    I've got a 770 with a manual oiler, that only sees action in spurts. I.E., there will be 2 weeks of daily use, and 2 weeks of downtime, due to the R&D environment I'm in.

    When leaving the machine alone for 2 to 4 weeks, there are 3 problem oil points that clog-up and stop flowing, without fail! Now, I'm sure those points have something off (I'm not sure if it's debris after the orifice, or if it's a partially clogged orifice, or whatnot). But, there has to be a better solution... an oil there that can sit in the machine for a few months, without having to dispose of it and do a WD-40 flush as in the Tormach white paper.

    I'm afraid that when I move-on, the crew left behind will neglect to cycle the oil pumps, so the machine will sit for 6 months or so before use.

    Know of anything out there that would perform better in this situation?

    Thanks,

    Mike




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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Quote Originally Posted by CadRhino View Post
    Great post.
    In my naivety, how do you check for proper oil distribution? Do you take all the way covers off and pump the oil and see where it is not coming out?
    In three years of owning my machine I have not done this.
    I have been using tornachs Perlube and will switch to vactra when that runs out.
    Thanks
    When I turn the machine on and home axis, then run z axis down a little and squirt way oil on the left side gib and right side way. Takes about 10 seconds, I don't always do it but most the time. Sometimes I even run it way down so I can see Z lead screw and touch it with oil can tip and carefully drizzle some oil down it. Then set slow feed and run z axis back up at slow speed, keep the way oil from spinning off.
    Every 6 months or so I take off the left side chip pan clean machine and unscrew way covers. Use a couple hooked shape wires and hold way covers in collapsed position. Then run machine around and cycle lube system looking at each outlet you can see. Also touch the lead screws with finger , flashlight on the ball screws and cycle lube system and see it run out and where. X axis all the way left will expose good views of some of the oil system and the reason for removing the left side chip pan makes it easy to see oil system and adjust gibs if required. Be careful to not over pressure the system the manual says it can damage valves.



    Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?-trolley8-jpg

    This picture is posted elsewhere another use of little trolly crane besides moving that 8" super space boat anchor is to remove and replace the chip pans with no hands

    Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?-chippan-jpg

    hope this helps.



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    Thanks for the insights.
    I won't be able to remove my chip pan but will try the rest.



    Quote Originally Posted by mountaindew View Post
    When I turn the machine on and home axis, then run z axis down a little and squirt way oil on the left side gib and right side way. Takes about 10 seconds, I don't always do it but most the time. Sometimes I even run it way down so I can see Z lead screw and touch it with oil can tip and carefully drizzle some oil down it. Then set slow feed and run z axis back up at slow speed, keep the way oil from spinning off.
    Every 6 months or so I take off the left side chip pan clean machine and unscrew way covers. Use a couple hooked shape wires and hold way covers in collapsed position. Then run machine around and cycle lube system looking at each outlet you can see. Also touch the lead screws with finger , flashlight on the ball screws and cycle lube system and see it run out and where. X axis all the way left will expose good views of some of the oil system and the reason for removing the left side chip pan makes it easy to see oil system and adjust gibs if required. Be careful to not over pressure the system the manual says it can damage valves.



    Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?-trolley8-jpg

    This picture is posted elsewhere another use of little trolly crane besides moving that 8" super space boat anchor is to remove and replace the chip pans with no hands

    Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?-chippan-jpg

    hope this helps.




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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedneckPhysics View Post
    Hi All,

    I've got a 770 with a manual oiler, that only sees action in spurts. I.E., there will be 2 weeks of daily use, and 2 weeks of downtime, due to the R&D environment I'm in.

    When leaving the machine alone for 2 to 4 weeks, there are 3 problem oil points that clog-up and stop flowing, without fail! Now, I'm sure those points have something off (I'm not sure if it's debris after the orifice, or if it's a partially clogged orifice, or whatnot). But, there has to be a better solution... an oil there that can sit in the machine for a few months, without having to dispose of it and do a WD-40 flush as in the Tormach white paper.

    I'm afraid that when I move-on, the crew left behind will neglect to cycle the oil pumps, so the machine will sit for 6 months or so before use.

    Know of anything out there that would perform better in this situation?

    Thanks,

    Mike
    Our bottling machines had Farval oiling systems on them and the orifices or shifting blocks were always plugging up, this is just a fact of this type of system. We finally took all the shifting blocks internals out and made a free flowing system out of it, this wasnt perfect either but did work much better than it did originally.

    We also had a soap system for the floor conveyors that had a motorized rotary distributor block on a timer, this worked much better, I have wondered if the same system could be adapted to a mill?

    I put a check valve in the line that goes up to the Z axis ways and ballscrew that keeps it from siphoning back, this fixed that problem but I have one of the X axis way oilers that doesnt work, I have been oiling it manually as its a pain to remove that line for cleaning.

    All the machines that have similar oiling systems on them have this problem that I have been associated with over the years as Ray mentioned earlier.

    mike sr


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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Quote Originally Posted by popspipes View Post
    We also had a soap system for the floor conveyors that had a motorized rotary distributor block on a timer, this worked much better, I have wondered if the same system could be adapted to a mill?
    That is, effectively, what my current system is - a 14-way rotary valve, with pressurized oil feed. Right now, it's manually operated, but when I get some free time, I'll add a small air cylinder operating a ratchet mechanism to operate the rotary valve, and an MCU to control the timing, so the oiling schedule for each circuit can be set individually, based on spindle on-time.

    In fact, if someone here has the time and energy to finish the mechanical side of this design (the valve is done and working, only the ratchet actuator needs to be completed), I'd be willing to provide the 3D model of the valve in exchange for a set of parts for the final design. I will also do the firmware to make it all work automatically using an $2 Arduino MCU and small LCD display.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Fantastic responses all, thanks for the insights!

    I completely forgot to mention the oil I'm running: Tormach's re-branded 68 way oil. Not sure if this is actually Perlube, or Smitty's Supply. The SDS currently on the site points towards the latter.

    Since clogs only occurred after oil wasn't cycled for some time, I was assuming the oil itself was the culprit... maybe varnishing or something similar (I'm no expert by any means). Now, I haven't had the opportunity to work with any high-end machining centers, but I've read that oil check valves and orifices are regular maintenance items to change out. It's sad that the Tormach's X-Y sub-system wasn't designed for ease of access. Hopefully they'll come up with something better for the next gen. of machines.

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    That is, effectively, what my current system is - a 14-way rotary valve, with pressurized oil feed. Right now, it's manually operated, but when I get some free time, I'll add a small air cylinder operating a ratchet mechanism to operate the rotary valve, and an MCU to control the timing, so the oiling schedule for each circuit can be set individually, based on spindle on-time.

    In fact, if someone here has the time and energy to finish the mechanical side of this design (the valve is done and working, only the ratchet actuator needs to be completed), I'd be willing to provide the 3D model of the valve in exchange for a set of parts for the final design. I will also do the firmware to make it all work automatically using an $2 Arduino MCU and small LCD display.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    Ray, that's a great solution! If I owned this machine, I'd be more than happy to help make that a reality. Unfortunately, there's just no time and money in our small research group that I'm assisting to help. I hope you can find a way to get it done though!



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    Default Re: Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

    Vactra #2 is ISO 68.



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Way Oil that doesn't cause clogs, recommendations?

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