Vertical lines in finished part

[popspipes]

I am going to post here as well as in the Sprut forum, as it may well be a Tormach or Pathpilot problem.


I have a problem that I havent had before with vertical lines or anomalies in the finished part. I have made a few hundred of similar parts and never noticed these lines.
When i made the fixture I rotated the parts as I usually do for multiple parts, 29 degrees worked well for the part count, tool clearance etc, but I am wondering if this angle doesnt work well with the Tormach or Sprut 7 as its an odd angle?

Have any of you guys had a problem such as this? I have adjusted the XY ways and they are in spec. I also use PathPilot v 1.9.8

Kind of a head scratcher for me thats for sure............

Any input on what may be a possible cause very much appreciated.

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[MFchief]

Hey Mike, haven't a clue to help with your issue, but congratulations on your 1000th post to the board! LoL

Terry

[popspipes]

Hey Mike, haven't a clue to help with your issue, but congratulations on your 1000th post to the board! LoL

Terry

Thanks Terry, movijng up with the big boys now ha!!
Actually i have 1700 or so I had 750 or thereabouts under mike sr and when the forum screwed up a few years back I set up a new account thinking that was the problem.....

I am getting these vertical lines/anomalies what ever they are and I am trying to figure out what causes them, I am thinking it may be that 29 degree part setup doing it, maybe a stepper problem or Pathpilot not liking the uneven number of degrees??
I changed the cutter, stock, feedrate, spindle speeds, I havent figured it out yet. Something to work on and keep me out of trouble ha!!

[Bryan Turner]

Mike,

What finishing op are you using in SprutCam?
Did you program an Arc entry for the cut?
Are the lines at the quarter or cross-quarter points as the part is fixtured to the table? (ie: part on table, lines at 45* northwest)

Just some examples of causes I've noticed on my own parts.
--Bryan

[RCaffin]

The lines are (initially) due to the cutter. It could be worth while trying a new sharp aluminium cutter to see if there is any improvement.
You could maybe also get the lines if the axes have a bit of free play.

Cheers
Roger

[petenc]

I see that a lot using inserted cutters for profiling. Its usually the slight inaccuracy of the insert in the insert holder. The other cause I've seen is tool push off or flex, because of dull cutters, too much stickout, or just taking too much off (or not enough) on the clean up pass. I won't say it out loud but the other cause could be tram, but I really doubt it.

For what its worth, if I need to use multiple profile passes to clean up a part, I use the biggest cutter (most rigid) I got, and I try and use a radius'd corner so the cutter doesn't pull into the part on the sharp.

Pete

[petenc]

Oh another trick! is switching from climb cutting to conventional or vice versa. I've had good success with a lot of finish problems by flipping it. I've found that some cutters like that little extra pressure of conventional.

[Steve Seebold]

I'm guessing your cam software output your circle as a bunch of short lines insiead of an arc or a radius. Another possibility might be your finish feed rate is too fast.

[petenc]

Ok Mike, one more idea and Ill stop. The other thing I do sometimes, in aluminum, for the finishing pass .005-.010", is use a steel cutter with a lot of flutes (4-6), not 2-3 like most free cutting aluminum cutters. These are naturally more rigid in the center and prevent deflection. Also, without getting too nerdy there is more ACP (axial contact point) that will keep the cutter engaged in a cut as much as possible. Just be sure to get the long chips out before the chance of re-cut, since you aren't using such a free cutting end mill anymore.

Pete

[RCaffin]

for the finishing pass .005-.010", is use a steel cutter with a lot of flutes (4-6), not 2-3 like most free cutting aluminum cutters.
+1

Cheers
Roger

[popspipes]

Mike,

What finishing op are you using in SprutCam?
Did you program an Arc entry for the cut?
Are the lines at the quarter or cross-quarter points as the part is fixtured to the table? (ie: part on table, lines at 45* northwest)

Just some examples of causes I've noticed on my own parts.
--Bryan

waterline rough then finish waterline .010 doc .007 woc, new 4 flute carbide cutter.
entry is straight down, I have tried the others but it adds a bunch of time.
the lines are going down at an angle toward the bottom of the part.
I run these waterline ops at 5000 rpm. .25 cutter.

[popspipes]

for the finishing pass .005-.010", is use a steel cutter with a lot of flutes (4-6), not 2-3 like most free cutting aluminum cutters.
+1

Cheers
Roger

I use a carbide ball .25 cutter 4 flute on everything flood oil coolant.
finish is .007woc.
I have cut probably 500 of these, similar holes ( round to rectangle transition) and never have had the line situation, but this is the first time for the 29 degree angle.

[popspipes]

I'm guessing your cam software output your circle as a bunch of short lines insiead of an arc or a radius. Another possibility might be your finish feed rate is too fast.

20 ipm Steve, I tried slowing down, it helps some but the artifacts or whatever are still there. X&Y jibs are good, I have checked that. There was an IJ setting in Mach, I dont see that in Pathpilot or a way to change it??
The outer contour cuts have witness marks in them as well about 90 degrees apart aroud the outside, even top to bottom on multiple cuts. The thing I have noticed with Pathpilot is cutting contours is not as smooth as Mach was (feedrate varies more) and it stops at times in the middle of a contour, adding a P0 Q.001 more or less stopped this but it screws up on a waterline inside cut so I took it out of the programs.

[Steve Seebold]

20 ipm Steve, I tried slowing down, it helps some but the artifacts or whatever are still there. X&Y jibs are good, I have checked that. There was an IJ setting in Mach, I dont see that in Pathpilot or a way to change it??
The outer contour cuts have witness marks in them as well about 90 degrees apart aroud the outside, even top to bottom on multiple cuts. The thing I have noticed with Pathpilot is cutting contours is not as smooth as Mach was (feedrate varies more) and it stops at times in the middle of a contour, adding a P0 Q.001 more or less stopped this but it screws up on a waterline inside cut so I took it out of the programs.

That being the case, I would look at the posted program and make sure you have a G2 or a G3 and not a G1 program with a bunch of short X and Y moves.

[RCaffin]

Witness marks: sometimes these are due to second cuts: a bit of swarf getting jammed between the cutter and the wall. It happens a lot more on inside surfaces, as the swarf falls away from outside surfaces but gets bottled up inside a hole. Could you try again with a continuous air blast clearing the chips the whole time?

Are these lines in a fixed position at all? If so they could be due to a pause between lines in PathPilot. Is PP set to Constant Velocity rather than Exact Stop?

Cheers
Roger

[popspipes]

Witness marks: sometimes these are due to second cuts: a bit of swarf getting jammed between the cutter and the wall. It happens a lot more on inside surfaces, as the swarf falls away from outside surfaces but gets bottled up inside a hole. Could you try again with a continuous air blast clearing the chips the whole time?

Are these lines in a fixed position at all? If so they could be due to a pause between lines in PathPilot. Is PP set to Constant Velocity rather than Exact Stop?

Cheers
Roger

They arent due to chips getting between the cutter and the wall,that would leave a mark in one spot, this is a sort of line that goes full length and fades out gradually at the round end.

I really dont know if PP has a setting for cv or exact stop, I have looked for that before without any luck. Mach seemed to have smoother contour cuts than PP, no hesitations and constant feedrate thru the contours.
I really like PP in the respect that it doesnt do anything thats not called for, and I can put up with the quirks here and there, I think they will be worked out over time.

The round waterline ops I use (conical shape) dont have the vertical lines, I can rotate the part in question back to parallel with the X axis and cut one and see if the lines are still there. The parts are usable the way they are, I would just like to know what is causing it.

[IMT]

I believe PP still uses the Fanuc standard g-codes. G64 is constant velocity, G61 is exact stop. Make sure your program has a G64 near the start.

[popspipes]

I believe PP still uses the Fanuc standard g-codes. G64 is constant velocity, G61 is exact stop. Make sure your program has a G64 near the start.

thanks, G64 is in the start line

[PCW_MESA]

Have you tried setting reasonable blending parameters, like G64 P0.001 Q0.001 ?

[popspipes]

Have you tried setting reasonable blending parameters, like G64 P0.001 Q0.001 ?

I have tried P0 Q.001, maybe increase P to .001?? this works on the outer contours but on the inner waterline ops it made things worse.

I have a 29 degree fixture and I have it in my head that this could maybe cause it?? Maybe the steppers dont like an odd angle? I am also thinking maybe the computer could be at fault, its a 5 year old Tormach controller??

No one else seems to complain about these issues so maybe its as simple as changing out the computer?
I have an old Dell 8200 set up except for the mesa card, I just need to try it, who knows maybe it will solve some problems, or create others?? Murphys law you know ha!

Another issue I have with the computer is when running a complicated file (waterline op) 170k lines, it will reboot if I start the press motor or the bandsaw motor ( 1 HP capacitor start), this doesnt happen on simpler programs.