Deluxe Stand - Coolant draining, chips under the machine, etc

[cobrakai]

I've been meaning to ask about this for a while. It's always been a hassle for me. The deluxe stand is not angled down toward the drain, so I tend to get 1/4-1/2" standing coolant in the bottom of my machine. This reduces the already small amount of coolant that can be circulated. Clog up the table with chips, and it will quickly start pumping air. I also don't like how the chips and coolant can go underneath the machine where it's impossible to clean up. Has anyone found a solution to either of these problems?

I have two possible ideas... wanted to run them by you guys. First, tilt the entire base up on one corner so it's not level and it will tend to drain to one corner. Would this affect machine accuracy at all; I have already trammed my machine in place? Second option - fill the gap between the machine and tray with expanding foam as to prevent any coolant or chips from going underneath the machine. Keep it limited to the ~4-5" channel around the perimeter. If coolant makes it past the Y-bellows though, this could be real bad.

Thoughts? It's not really an issue if running the machine continuously, but if you do a day here and there, the coolant evaporates readily and requires a lot of attention to coolant sump level.

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[Steve Seebold]

I cut a piece of 1/4 inch square aluminum about 24 inches long and put about a 2 inch 90 degree bend in one end and I use that to clean chips and such from under the base of the machine.

I let the machine sit and drain over night before I vacuum chips out.

Where I live it's too much of a pain to save the chips so I just dump the chips in the recycle trash can.

[Plascut]

Do a search for "Tormach Streamliner" to see one solution to this problem.
I did contemplate raising the mill with spacer blocks to give more clearance under mill, Streamliner panels worked so well I didn't bother.
Search for "Gargantuan coolant level indicator" for simple increase in coolant quantity.

[Uman]

The Streamliner will help prevent chips from collecting under the machine, but it will not prevent the coolant puddle issue. My machine table is level, but the stand base is either not level or has a depression on the right side and coolant puddles there and does not drain. I did incorporate a Streamliner and added a larger reservoir, but about a half gallon of coolant permanently resides in the pan and I am concerned about the pan paint over time and the streamliner encloses the trapped coolant under the mill. The high moisture effects on the underside of the mill is also a concern.

I wonder if fiberglass resin was poured in the pan, it would seek the depressed areas and create a level pan. If the pan is holding about a half gallon coolant, than a half gallon resin should do the trick. Furthermore adding a temporary dam of putty around the drain and adding more resin, one could incorporate channels to direct the coolant to the drain. There are other more expensive resins available (Hapco) that are thinner and have longer cure times to improve the self leveling process.
Fiberglass resin will heat up (exothermic) during large batch mixture, so caution is advised.

[Spinnetti]

I never liked the stand on many levels. Sure would be nice if there was a single properly made stand/enclosure instead of this cobbled together design. I'm not knocking Tormach, but this is long overdue to be rengineered. I might just get a used HAAS for my next one, but would rather get an updated tormach with a proper stand/enclosure and the power cabinet off the side of machine where it is now.. could be a "pro" version.. along side the current rather than a full replacement.

[Mooser]

I wonder is one of the garage-floor epoxy coatings would stand up to the coolant...
My machine does eventually drain but it's pretty flat so it takes a while and frequently I can have more coolant in the machine than in the reservoir.
I would also almost swear the area around the drain screen is ever so slightly higher than anything else
M

[GLCarlson]

I wonder is one of the garage-floor epoxy coatings would stand up to the coolant...
My machine does eventually drain but it's pretty flat so it takes a while and frequently I can have more coolant in the machine than in the reservoir.
I would also almost swear the area around the drain screen is ever so slightly higher than anything else
M

POR-15 has been recommended (and on my stand, has held up well). It can be poured so there's a small slope to the coating, which helps a bit.

[Paul-JB]

What about putting 1/8" or so thick spacers in between the stand and left side front and rear machine base? Then re-level your table. That might create enough slope to the drain. Personally, I find it's less headaches to just skip coolant altogether and machine dry. But never mind that I don't want to set the internet on fire with such blashpemy

[jttoner]

Cobra, my simple solution was to plumb an outlet and ball valve to which I connected a shower hose, (I used the one that Tormach supplied since I've replaced it with 1" I.D. tubing). One end of the shower hose goes to the ball valve and the other end is connected to a garden nozzle. the kind that have a lever the acts as a normally closed valve and when squeezed ranges from a spray to a stream. So to clean the chips from under the table or the vice, work piece, or even the bellows, I just hose them down. Dirt cheap and works great. Again thanks to Brian Carmichael of WOTworks for the idea.

[antonio5005]

I've been meaning to ask about this for a while. It's always been a hassle for me. The deluxe stand is not angled down toward the drain, so I tend to get 1/4-1/2" standing coolant in the bottom of my machine. This reduces the already small amount of coolant that can be circulated. Clog up the table with chips, and it will quickly start pumping air. I also don't like how the chips and coolant can go underneath the machine where it's impossible to clean up. Has anyone found a solution to either of these problems?

I have two possible ideas... wanted to run them by you guys. First, tilt the entire base up on one corner so it's not level and it will tend to drain to one corner. Would this affect machine accuracy at all; I have already trammed my machine in place? Second option - fill the gap between the machine and tray with expanding foam as to prevent any coolant or chips from going underneath the machine. Keep it limited to the ~4-5" channel around the perimeter. If coolant makes it past the Y-bellows though, this could be real bad.

Thoughts? It's not really an issue if running the machine continuously, but if you do a day here and there, the coolant evaporates readily and requires a lot of attention to coolant sump level.

Just curious if you have found a way to drain the coolant better? I'm having the same issue with my Tormach stand as well., I'm leaving quite a bit of coolant in the wrong corners of the stand. Everything is leveled and trammed at this moment but now I'm thinking about jacking the stand up on the oppsite corner of the drain and then re-leveling and tramming the mill under the feet.

I'm just worried that it will take a decent amount of tilting to get the coolant flowing to one end and then the mill's feet won't sit properly on the shims and pads. I'm thinking the edges of the feet will be the only part making true contact with the base padsat that point. I may be over thinking it and it's not that big of a concern. I have a bad habit of that sometimes. I'm willling to try though, just curious if you gave it a shot or had a different remedy. Thanks!

[Steve Seebold]

My machine stand while not level is parallel to the floor. The machine itself is level.

I found early on that as the machine ran it would splash coolant on the line coming up from the coolant pump and tank and that coolant would drain back down and flow onto the top of the coolant which in turn would run out onto the floor.

If you'll notice, there is a pipe stub sticking up from the chip tray where the coolant line comes up from the tank.

I took a piece of 2 inch PVC pipe about 2 feet long with a 90* elbow on the top, ran my coolant line up through the PVC pipe and put the pipe over that stub in the chip tray and that ended coolant running out onto the floor. Then at the end of my day, I'll let the machine sit over night and vacuum chips out in the morning before I stare my day.

[tmarks11]

I never liked the stand on many levels... this is long overdue to be rengineered

+++1

They did such a much better job with the 770 (but then they built the 440 stand which is even worse than the 1100).

Novakon updated their stand about 3 years ago, and it is even better than the 770 stand. I was hoping that the competition would make Tormach work harder to improve their product, but they seem happy with the status quo. Too bad.

[popspipes]

My solutiion to the problem was to only use flood on the table, the drains are all plumbed directly to the drain in the stand so that 99.9 percent of the coolant is drained into the screen in the bottom of the stand.
I also use a spindle and rear shield on the table to keep most of the chips on the table as well, keeps cleanup to a minimum. This works for me and the type of machining I have done. I hate cleaning up the machine and this minimizes it.......

[antonio5005]

My machine stand while not level is parallel to the floor. The machine itself is level.

I found early on that as the machine ran it would splash coolant on the line coming up from the coolant pump and tank and that coolant would drain back down and flow onto the top of the coolant which in turn would run out onto the floor.

If you'll notice, there is a pipe stub sticking up from the chip tray where the coolant line comes up from the tank.

I took a piece of 2 inch PVC pipe about 2 feet long with a 90* elbow on the top, ran my coolant line up through the PVC pipe and put the pipe over that stub in the chip tray and that ended coolant running out onto the floor. Then at the end of my day, I'll let the machine sit over night and vacuum chips out in the morning before I stare my day.

I figured if I get to running the coolant like I wanted (flood) I would have to do something with that thing. I like your idea, I may incorporate it on mine.

Any chance you know roughly how much your stand is "out of leveI" from one end?

I'm laying it out in cad to see what kind of difference tilting the stand a 1/4" would make. Of course if I tilt a 1/4" to drain rearward I would have to add 1/4" spacers/shims to the rear feet of the mill. No problem there except the mill's feet will not sit flat on the stand's pads. It will be roughly a 1/32" taller on the back side of the rear foot to the opposite side of the rear foot. I could machine that angle into the spacer/shim, just not sure how solid the mill will be once it is bolted down.

I feel over time that 1200# mill will try to squirt those shims out and the only thing keeping them in place would be a bolt... torqued to 10ft lbs...

I do know a guy who could weld those spacers/shims in place...

[C*H*U*D]

I don't have the full Streamlined setup on my 770, but this works very well. I no longer get chips under the machine base, and the gaps in the sheetmetal allow coolant to flow underneath the panels. They are simple rectangles but I forget the size. They are held in place with harddrive magnets so it's easy to pop them out. I also run the table enclosure to keep chips out from the front of the base. Like others have said though, this doesn't totally eliminate puddling. Tormach really needs to redesign this base. If I ever ordered another PCNC, I would skip the base and make my own.

[antonio5005]

I don't have the full Streamlined setup on my 770, but this works very well. I no longer get chips under the machine base, and the gaps in the sheetmetal allow coolant to flow underneath the panels. They are simple rectangles but I forget the size. They are held in place with harddrive magnets so it's easy to pop them out. I also run the table enclosure to keep chips out from the front of the base. Like others have said though, this doesn't totally eliminate puddling. Tormach really needs to redesign this base. If I ever ordered another PCNC, I would skip the base and make my own.

Thanks for the suggestion! That's definitely something I need to get put on mine. I'm also going to add the vinyl curtain around it and upgrade the coolant system with something a little beefier. Any recommendations or lessons learned with the vinyl curtain setup you wouldn't mind passing along??

I did end up lowering the rear of the base by about a 1/4" and raising the side opposite of the drain by roughly a 1/32" - 1/16". After that and raking some chips from under the mill, it drains a lot better. I shimmed and leveled the mill along the X axis but I did not level along the Y. Thought that may be way too much shimming. Just need to check the column for squareness and then tram it. Not looking forward to finding out how bad out it is though.

I've read that leveling the mill will supposedly reset it to the factory specs but at the same time may not be as necessary as long as everything tracks properly in relation to the spindle. I've banged my head trying to figure out what the best route would be so I can get it to drain correctly and be level and square. I'm with you though, I wish Tormach would take a hard look at this issue and get it fixed... My base, when leveled, pretty much kept all the coolant at one end. I got tired of always having to fill the coolant up every time I used it and it pretty much running dry after machining with it for a little bit.

[C*H*U*D]

Thanks for the suggestion! That's definitely something I need to get put on mine. I'm also going to add the vinyl curtain around it and upgrade the coolant system with something a little beefier. Any recommendations or lessons learned with the vinyl curtain setup you wouldn't mind passing along??

I used a very heavy gauge sheet of clear vinyl, but if I had to do it again I would go with a lighter shower curtain liner. They're cheaper and I don't really worry about parts flying out at me since I do mostly small stuff. There is a thread on here where someone did the shower curtain with the PVC pipe idea and it looked much better than what I currently have.

[antonio5005]

I used a very heavy gauge sheet of clear vinyl, but if I had to do it again I would go with a lighter shower curtain liner. They're cheaper and I don't really worry about parts flying out at me since I do mostly small stuff. There is a thread on here where someone did the shower curtain with the PVC pipe idea and it looked much better than what I currently have.

Thanks for the advice! I actually ended up going with your idea of using the lighter stuff. It worked out really good. I built the PVC frame and lined it with medium weight shower curtain. Adjusted the front to accommodate the table guard as well. I don't trust myself too much yet and don't want to take the risk juuussstttt yet of not having the guards. I'm new to physically machining parts but not to designing parts to be machined... Dangerous game huh lol...

Just have to get my coolant system upgraded and I'll be good to go. I already have a pump, filter, and tank, just need the nozzles and a good way to screen the chips before the tank. The basket it comes with doesn't work worth a dang. The coolant slips underneath the outer edges, so chips from the base don't even touch the screen inside the basket. I'm ditching the basket and going to try to build a slope from the drain that leads into a large screen above my coolant tank (storage tote of course...).

And now I'm chasing my tail trying to level, square, and tram the machine. But I'm getting closer, I think...

[wormwood]

Could someone explain the benefit of flood coolant over a Trico micro droplet system? I had a Trico on my previous CNC & loved it, however, I went with Tormach's flood coolant system when i bought my 1100 & it didn't take but a week before "The Swamp" developed under the base. That same day I called & ordered a Trico system & began to clean out the swamp... Now I have the Trico system setup integrated with the my SmartCool & MultiCool module & couldn't be happier

I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but why stick it out with the flood coolant or even a wash down? My chips are all dry & not even a sticky residue, so I can simply vacuum out the base, no towels, no cleansers, no swamp, just a Rigid shop vac and after 5 mins. it looks like I just bought it again???

Wormwood

[punkman]

I can only speak for myself but number one I cannot stand compressors, air powered equipment running all the time it is annoying as hell. Second I was nearly killed by a lung infection (nothing to do with machining or a mister) a few years back and still suffer physically from it today. If there is any chance at all of anything other than clean air entering my beat up lungs I am not having it. I would love to run a mister / droplet system but that is is going to put coolant in the air, not to mention the noise of constant air blast. I run qualichem and have never has a problem with odors or anything like that. Dry chips would certainly be easier to deal with but for me a mister or droplet system is not a option.

Could someone explain the benefit of flood coolant over a Trico micro droplet system? I had a Trico on my previous CNC & loved it, however, I went with Tormach's flood coolant system when i bought my 1100 & it didn't take but a week before "The Swamp" developed under the base. That same day I called & ordered a Trico system & began to clean out the swamp... Now I have the Trico system setup integrated with the my SmartCool & MultiCool module & couldn't be happier

I'm sure there's something I'm missing, but why stick it out with the flood coolant or even a wash down? My chips are all dry & not even a sticky residue, so I can simply vacuum out the base, no towels, no cleansers, no swamp, just a Rigid shop vac and after 5 mins. it looks like I just bought it again???

Wormwood