trouble with the slot

[GJeff]

You have a video or thread detailing that build, Jim? What pressure air are you using in those pics? Doesn't it fog up at high pressure?

[Jim Dawson]

I can post a build thread. I have all the pictures. I'll do that a bit later, I need to get out of my chair and run into town for a bit.

That is full shop air pressure, but I don't know exactly where the flow control was set, maybe 40 or so PSI at the nozzle. No, it does not seem to fog in any operating condition that I have used.

[popspipes]

I built a peristaltic pump for the fluid delivery and use a stepper motor to drive it. You can also buy stepper powered peristaltic pumps on ebay for cheap. I have it under computer control, but it could be a separate controller. You can set the airflow hard enough to blast the chips out of the slot, and still deliver the proper amount (minimum required amount) of coolant to the tool bit. For aluminum, kerosene is my favorite cutting fluid.

Kerosene or diesel works very well on aluminum fog or flood..........cutting, tapping, or drilling.
I tried some Jet fuel, worked well but I couldnt stand the sulphur smell.

[Jim Dawson]

You have a video or thread detailing that build, Jim? What pressure air are you using in those pics? Doesn't it fog up at high pressure?

Here ya go, the build thread. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...ml#post1989814

[GJeff]

Thanks for that Jim. Looks pretty awesome.

I agree, too, that you're better off with high pressure air than low pressure fluid. I can piss harder than the standard Tormach pump, the problem is I run out. However, with all chip evac, you need to spray at the right angle for what is being cut, and it's hard to get a very vertical angle. If you're not going to adjust the angle to suit the cut, you'll really want two nozzles with some cyclonic action as vertical as possible.

[Jim Dawson]

Thanks for that Jim. Looks pretty awesome.

If you're not going to adjust the angle to suit the cut, you'll really want two nozzles with some cyclonic action as vertical as possible.

Thank you.

I agree 100% One of these days I am going to put a Y in my tube to do just what you suggest. Even with the Y it will still work fine.

[tbev]

I think the fog buster idea is cool and all but the best way to go IMO is with high pressure coolant. The factory Tormach system sucks, agreed, but for under 100 bucks you can really be jammin, even less if you stay with the tormach pump. The first thing I did was build a manifold. The nipple that connects the stainless hose from the pump to the loc line valve, and mounts it to the casting, is WAY too small ID. Which leads me to the second thing, that stainless hose is way too small on the inside as well. If you go with a 3\4in ID hose from the pump out to your loc line you'll be leaps and bounds ahead already. You can also T in right after the pump and get a washdown hose. I built a manifold with three loc line hoses, and a hose that goes out to my air manifold to do the fog buster thing. I just ran coolant into air into a loc line, with a valve on each to control mixture. If you replace the pump with a sewer pump from hardware store you'll get more flow than you can handle, I think I paid $80 for mine, but even if you just increase the id's of the lines and fittings you'll be way better prepared to handle major slotting.
I think I have a thread on here somewhere about what I did to my cool and system but if anyone wants details just ask. Here's a quick clip:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/310ngpo704...20NEW.mp4?dl=0

[GJeff]

Looks nice tbev. I got a little scared of coolant splashing around the spindle after seeing a video where the user, probably John Grimsmo, found that the coolant had gotten into places it shouldn't and done some damage to a bearing. My memory is a bit hazy on the exact issues, but I think he recommended sealing up some hole in the bottom. Definitely worth trying to find it if you're going to run splashy coolant.

[tbev]

If your bearings go out it's just an excuse to upgrade to better ones, prolly fifty bucks, no biggie. I wouldn't dream of making half the cuts I make without flood coolant. I like the fog buster for some things but I need splashy, flood coolant way more often.

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[Uman]

popspipes
What type is the aluminum?? I didnt see it mentioned , some of it is very gummy and doesnt machine well at all.

aluminum 6061-T6 .375" thick

Really nice collection of slotting information here; thanks all.
From what I am reading, narrow slots are indeed a challenge, and flooding is the best offense; the higher the volume and pressure, the better. The fogbuster is at a disadvantage due to its low pressure air flow and limited access; but with a low MRR or exotic systems, it is do-able.
I've been in the design and prototype mode for a long time and need to shift gears to production mode and get aggressive; it's time to get serious, I'm gonna activate that "useless" flood system that came with my Tormach. I believe there is a nice collection of "build your enclosure" threads on this forum somewhere.

Thanks again,
-uman

[GJeff]

Since Jim and I have our own custom "fogbusters" that run at much higher pressure, we may not be the greatest gauges for what an actual fogbuster can do. I just know that if you throw 140PSI air into the hole, the chips come out nicely A little fog comes out too, but mineral oil just provides my lungs with much needed lubricity.

[popspipes]

aluminum 6061-T6 .375" thick

Really nice collection of slotting information here; thanks all.
From what I am reading, narrow slots are indeed a challenge, and flooding is the best offense; the higher the volume and pressure, the better. The fogbuster is at a disadvantage due to its low pressure air flow and limited access; but with a low MRR or exotic systems, it is do-able.
I've been in the design and prototype mode for a long time and need to shift gears to production mode and get aggressive; it's time to get serious, I'm gonna activate that "useless" flood system that came with my Tormach. I believe there is a nice collection of "build your enclosure" threads on this forum somewhere.

Thanks again,
-uman

Flood coolant is messy thats for sure, but sometimes its the best way, I dont like the Tormachs pump low pressure.
Most of the full sized machines use high pressure flood coolant, at least in the videos I have watched.
I am thinking low volume but high pressure??
A type of oil works much better than water based coolants, they cool well but not much in the way of lubrication in my opinion.
I made a splatter shield for the lower spindle bearings, I guess its working as I havent had any spindle bearing problems.
I was told by my neighbor to change the grease in chinese bearings, I kind of received the info tongue in cheek until the bearings went out on my chinese belt sander, the problem was the chinese grease had dried out ruining the bearings.........
I havent had my spindle apart yet, hopefully this isnt the case, my spindle is over 5 years old and no problems so far with it, so I guess the spindle slinger is working??

All things considered I am going to try high pressure lower volume. I may need to change the pump to achieve this.
I think from what I have seen and its just my opinion, is that adaptive slotting is slower. I think a straight cut with a type of oil and enough pressure to blow the chips out of the slot is the way to go.

again just my opinion and every one has one of those!!

[tbev]

I recommend the septic pump from hardware, Lowe's/home dept store, I think mine's 3/4hp and it's more than I can use out of two half inch loc line hoses.

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[GJeff]

I recommend the septic pump from hardware, Lowe's/home dept store, I think mine's 3/4hp and it's more than I can use out of two half inch loc line hoses.

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Just don't get a used one

[AUSTINMACHINING]

I recommend the septic pump from hardware, Lowe's/home dept store, I think mine's 3/4hp and it's more than I can use out of two half inch loc line hoses.

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+1
I've got the same pump with a 1" line split into 2 loc lines. Blasts the chips out nicely.

[MichaelHenry]

Just don't get a used one

That would explain the funky coolant odor some folks complain of.

[heavenlykid]

I read this whole post and im not exactly sure your limitations of spindle speed or you feed rate limitations. Here in our shop we run sgs 2 flute endmills for slotting aluminum now are spindles are not capable of reaching 24,000 rpm so we use spindle speeders.

https://us.bigkaiser.com/tooling-cat...-speeders.html not the exact ones we have but just a refrence.

we run sgs ski carbs http://www.sgs-tool.de/PDF-speedfeed...S-Ski-Carb.pdf at 24,000 rpm at 122 ipm and we usualy ramp or slots so the endmill cuts back an forth while ramping downward at say maybe .040-.060 doc per pass moving at 122ipm slots done really quickly

sgs endmills are not that expensive for the smaller sizes about 30 bucks for a .250 inch https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/32151169
just my .02 hope this was helpful in some way you can usually pick up spindle speeders on ebay for a few grand.

[Steve Seebold]

I read this whole post and im not exactly sure your limitations of spindle speed or you feed rate limitations. Here in our shop we run sgs 2 flute endmills for slotting aluminum now are spindles are not capable of reaching 24,000 rpm so we use spindle speeders.

https://us.bigkaiser.com/tooling-cat...-speeders.html not the exact ones we have but just a refrence.

we run sgs ski carbs http://www.sgs-tool.de/PDF-speedfeed...S-Ski-Carb.pdf at 24,000 rpm at 122 ipm and we usualy ramp or slots so the endmill cuts back an forth while ramping downward at say maybe .040-.060 doc per pass moving at 122ipm slots done really quickly

sgs endmills are not that expensive for the smaller sizes about 30 bucks for a .250 inch https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/32151169
just my .02 hope this was helpful in some way you can usually pick up spindle speeders on ebay for a few grand.

Ski Carb end mills are amazing IF you have the horsepower to use them efficiently. I don't.

I have however found an end mill called a YG1 that's the closest I've found to the Ski Carb and at about 1/2 the price.

My Tormach only has 1 1/2 horsepower, but I can do anything you can do on a 30 horsepower machine, it just takes a little longer.

When I do slots or pockets, I never ruff using X or Y moves. I will develop a hole pattern and I will plunge ruff using a step over equal about 40% of the diameter of the cutter. That goes WAY faster than trying to side cut.