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Thread: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

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    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    I believe that you have it backwards: the BT30 spindle eliminates the possibility of an ATC or power draw bar. I have an R8 spindle on my 770 and the power draw bar works perfectly. I decided that the ATC was not worth the price for my usage.
    Isn’t that what I said? Did I say it wrong?



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Perhaps I misunderstood. To be clear:
    The ATC and PDB work on both the 1100 and the 770 although the units differ slightly between the two machines
    The ATC and PDB work with R8 spindle + TTS holders
    The ATC and PDB do not work with a BT30 spindle



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    @kstrauss - have you reached any limitations in your use of the 770? They emphasize aluminum and "light metals" - I'm not quite sure what they mean, but I assume you can easily use mild steels?

    @Derrek - an ATC is certainly an option with the 770. Assembly is no big deal for me. A hassle, yes, but quite do-able. I already have their lathe and like the software, and apart from one small customer support failure, it has otherwise been excellent.



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by dannirr View Post
    @kstrauss - have you reached any limitations in your use of the 770? They emphasize aluminum and "light metals" - I'm not quite sure what they mean, but I assume you can easily use mild steels?
    .
    I mostly machine aluminum and plastics (Delrin and UHMW) but have machined 1018, 12L14, 1144, 303 and 316 stainless. I have a homebrew (80/20 aluminum) enclosure + Tormach coolant system. However, I mostly use a Trico microdrop system to eliminate the time for cleanup; my usage is not every day and I worry about rust. In my experience steel and stainless works much better with flood coolant.

    Work envelope is sometimes smaller than I'd like but adding a homebrew tooling plate helps a lot.

    The belt changes are a pain and there is insufficient torque for larger drills in high speed range and there is insufficient spindle RPM for small endmills in low range.

    Other than those gripes I'm pretty happy with my choice.



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Thank you @Kstrauss. One last question - if space or money were not an issue, would you prefer the 1100?



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    I considered that proposition when making my original decision. In retrospect I believe that opting for the higher spindle speed plus faster rapids was probably the right choice for my usage. Note that the difference in base price between the 1100 and the 770 is only about $1700. Additions -- PDB, ATC, 4th axis, tool holders, measuring tools, software, etc, etc -- will dwarf the small difference in base price!



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by dleute View Post
    ...

    One reason I am looking at skyfire is I get more machine for less money (or the same money) *and* it comes fully assembled. Plug it in, level it, maybe seal the enclosure if that's an issue and go. That is *hugely* appealing to me. Down side, if I can't get it through the door, I'm still in a disassemble/assemble situation.

    --Derrek
    Interesting company (skyfire). No prices listed. They do seem to offer a bigger work envelope than the 1100 in some models.

    My 1100 was "some assembly required": bolt on the y stepper. And bolt on whatever enclosure one chooses. Other than that- nothing. Don't think that's a real issue.

    Having watched a bunch of these companies come and go, my advice is to give Skyfire at least 3-4 years to prove itself. Both for hardware and customer service.



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    And don't expect to get any machine specific options such as ATC or PDB unless they ship with the original purchase.



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by kstrauss View Post
    And don't expect to get any machine specific options such as ATC or PDB unless they ship with the original purchase.
    What do you mean by this?



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Many startups, even those with excellent products, fail in their first year or two of operation. If you buy a Flybynite mill without sufficient R8 tooling or other generic items you can always get more from numerous sources. However, if you need an ATC or other machine specific option but did not get it with your initial order and Flybynite fails you are most likely out of luck. Also, consider the availability of repair parts. I would never order from a startup or unproven vendor unless every desired accessory shipped with my initial order.



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by GLCarlson View Post
    Interesting company (skyfire). No prices listed. They do seem to offer a bigger work envelope than the 1100 in some models.
    Read the 3600 page skyfire thread. The company is basically mikini, which folded leaving some very unhappy customers. Now it is reborn, and the first couple years were very rocky, with the main character (DEFENG) disappearing from contact for a year, after taking thousands of dollars of advance payments. He returned, and started delivery, but people have waited 6-24 months for what they paid for in advance. Now it looks like he his whittled the wait down to a couple months.

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertic...are-forum.html

    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3 mill, Grizzly G0709 lathe, PM935 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.


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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by tmarks11 View Post
    Read the 3600 page skyfire thread. The company is basically mikini, which folded leaving some very unhappy customers. Now it is reborn, and the first couple years were very rocky, with the main character (DEFENG) disappearing from contact for a year, after taking thousands of dollars of advance payments. He returned, and started delivery, but people have waited 6-24 months for what they paid for in advance. Now it looks like he his whittled the wait down to a couple months.

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertic...are-forum.html
    Thanks! That's very useful background. An old adage comes to mind: past performance predicts future performance. I'll revisit them in 5 years or so.



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Derek,

    Similar position here, considered the 440 first, then after all of these issues coming up; started to think of the 770 with minimal order (no stand, not enclosure, no ATC), just the power draw bar, and build the extra features. Want to ask you about skyfire cnc, did you take this further? Their USA distributor site now says its R8 taper, and can run on 110v. I just sent them an email to get a call so i can discuss with them about the options and any pointer from your research is highly appreciated.

    Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by dleute View Post
    I am not a tormach owner (yet). At the moment, I am not sure I will be. I have since discovered skyfire cnc. And I am trying to learn more about them before I make a decision (assuming their product is as claimed, they seem like an excellent option but they are also quite new and don't have tormach's reputation for excellent support). I am also a hobbiest newbie.

    For me, the 770 is a better option. That primarily revolves around the spindle (*snickers*) and power source. 10k rpm and 110v power both make my life much easier. The 770 can use nearly every option the 1100 can (the 440 can't use a lot of them). The only exceptions are the bt30 spindle which I believe eliminates the possibility of an ATC (or even a power draw bar I think). So, unless you absolutely need the bigger motor or heavier weight of the 1100, I would say 770 is awesome.

    One reason I am looking at skyfire is I get more machine for less money (or the same money) *and* it comes fully assembled. Plug it in, level it, maybe seal the enclosure if that's an issue and go. That is *hugely* appealing to me. Down side, if I can't get it through the door, I'm still in a disassemble/assemble situation.

    That's my 2 cents. I really like tormach, but I haven't been sold on it yet. But, every owner I talk to loves them. Doesn't matter which machine. They love them, they love the support with very few caveats.

    --Derrek




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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Knowing what I know I would not buy anything else in this price range but Tormach. Value of service when something goes wrong is huge especially if you are trying to make money using this equipment. Even if you are not having parts and support available along with software updates is very valuable.

    Dennis


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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    That's my point; I know I won't be making money. Have to be realistic here. Everyone start with the dream of taking orders and making parts and such, and our mind/heart is justifying spending little over 12K on that basis! It's a cut-throat business. Without having someone already pushes work towards you, never going to happen! And even with that is will be hard.

    I can get what i want from a 440 for just under 8K which what i would like to spend, but the 440 still teething! I may for the 440 if the other unknown brands are about the same, but if there was a huge difference then maybe something to consider.


    Quote Originally Posted by coffeetek View Post
    Knowing what I know I would not buy anything else in this price range but Tormach. Value of service when something goes wrong is huge especially if you are trying to make money using this equipment. Even if you are not having parts and support available along with software updates is very valuable.




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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by narrobb View Post

    I can get what i want from a 440 for just under 8K which what i would like to spend, but the 440 still teething!
    That's what concerns me about the 440 too. I have the 770 so the 440 really does not interest me, but I'd be a bit leery if I absolutely needed one. The teething issues alone would make me spring for the 770.



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    Default Re: PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

    I bought a 440 a few months back. I considered the 770 and thought I could save a few thou going with the 440. After a failed VFD, a few issues with the ATC, running out of work area for a part or two, and wishing I could run a tapping head, I really wish I had bought the 770 with its more mature accessories, and size.
    Regardless I love the results I’m getting with my 440 and I’m trying to focus on having fun with it and not on “buyers remorse” over not getting the 770...



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PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie

PCNC 440 vs 770 vs ??? for newbie