Warmup program

[philbur]

The linear temperature coefficient of expansion of plain steel is about 6.7 microinches / (degree F * inch).[/url]

I think theTormach balls crews are stainless so this would result in a much higher coefficient

Phil

[hub]

I use warm up for the spindle, to allow the bearing pre-load to be correct before cutting.

[popspipes]

I run mine at a lower speed if its really cold in the garage- low 50's is about as low as it goes. If its colder I wait a day or two ha! Retirement does have a few perks............
I think the biggest problem with spindle bearings isnt so much the warm up procedure, its inadvertently getting coolant in the lower bearing set, just my opinion and everyone has one of those.

[Moggot]

It's funny what 'cold' means to different people. My shop was below zero much of this past winter. Besides wiping the ways down as best I could with light oil every day I didn't do anything different machine wise.

The only real cold related issue I'd run into is the backlight on the controller monitor just did not want to come to life some mornings. Moments like those really made me think long and hard about fleeing south.

[sh1224]

Hello Michael
What a waste of time Micheal!
You get onto a forum and ask a simple question about an item... (warm up g code) now to me that looks like your asking for someone to help you with a little g code to do a warm up on your machine, for what ever reason that is your problem....
The result was some 32 reply’s later to end up writing your own........ The so called experts of the world came back with comment to do with weather you need it or not (not the question asked) , and then you get the history and performance details of heat and ball screws and what ever else (again not the question).
Why is it so hard for the knowlidgeable to answer the Oh! so simple question without showing the size of their testies and ranting on about sh,t that doesn’t matter, and then still not give you the answer you are asking for....... this is a forum for cnc enthusiasts full time part time or beginners,
If you wish to debate the need to run a warm up programme start another thread. And if you want to discuss the temperature of different workshops around the world, again start another thread, why is it so difficult for people to just answer the simple question....
It seems to me that these forums are for making the newbies of the world feel like simpletons while giving the testosterone fill egomaniacs amongst us an opportunity to vent or stretch their knowledge muscles on the weaker of the species....... I think they call that bullying
This will probably upset a few but you want to have a look at some of the threads.
The question is asked by some one new to the scene..".... and then off it goes into usually a rant about I’ve been doing this for years or I have repaired these machine for centuries and so on and so forth usually between a couple of knowledgeable big wigs........ meanwhile the newbie with the question has to wait until one of the big heads admit defeat..... sorry one of the big heads doesn’t reply because secretly they know they have been beaten by the other (dam you!,)
And then maybe the question will be answered or the winner of the cnc battle moves on not being able to answer the question anyway!!! And no one says hello goodbye good luck kiss my a%se or anything nice????

[popspipes]

TMI, If its warm for me in the shop thats good enough for the machine.............

[Bob La Londe]

G53 is absolute machine coordinates. Atleast in the version of G-Code I am familiar with.

When I saw the title warm up program I assumed you meant something like a good program to spread oil around the ways, lubricate the screws, and warm up the spindle bearings.

I have thought about doing something like that for my machines, but I never got around to it. A program like that would depend on the machine. My little machines fire off the oiler immediately when the machine is powered up, and then every 20 minutes after that, My big machine fires the oiler on a fixed 15 minute electrical mechanical timer. For ether I could start out by ramping up and down the spindle over a 15 minute time period to make sure the bearings are warmed to operating temperature. Probably more of an issue with the high speed spindles on the little machines, but wouldn't hurt on the big one either. After the oiler has fired and if you are not trying to preserve the current physical location you could home the machine, The reason I say that is because accuracy of homing can vary on different machines based on the type of homing switch, physical characteristics of the machine, and whether or not there are chips laying on the sensor or micro switch. It might even vary base on the temperature of the machine. After that you could slowly move through the full range of movement of the machine to spread oil. If your machine is grease lubed a few cycles to warm the grease and break any initial stiction may or may not help. I don't think it would hurt. Then to be safe you might wait for the oiler to fire again and run the machine through its range of movement again.

I have thought this might be a good idea, but when I walk into the shop in the morning I would hate to have to wait 21 to 31 minutes while the machines go thru their warm up cycle. Also, sometimes when I walk into the shop I have programs ready to run, and other times I have to start writing code. (Me and my CAM software.) Because my jobs can be deceptively complex or surprisingly easy (I do mostly original custom work) I often don't know how long it will be until I will need a machine or machines ready to go. Sometimes I get a job ready to go pretty quick, and sometimes I look up to see its the end of the day and I have been laying out operations all day long.

Also, I don't recall if there is a G-Code to home the machine. LOL. Everything else is easily programmable. Your routine might start with powering up the machine, waiting for the oiler to fire, and then manually homing the machine before starting your program. Depending on the machine you may check consumables before or during this procedure. One of my machines has both an electric oiler and an airline oiler. When the machine is powered up a solenoid is activated that pressurizes the air line oiler. I have never tried to get the bowl off with pressure on the air line, but I could I imagine it would be quite messy. LOL. That particular oiler goes to the spindle so it would be bad form to start warming up the spindle with the air turned off.

Anyway, I think the starting point for you would be to know your machine, and decided exactly what you want a warm up program to do. Working backwards from somebody else's warmup program might not suit your machine at all.

[kstrauss]

This is a Tormach forum so it seems reasonable that posts relate to Tormach machines.

Insofar as I know all recent versions of Pathpilot require that the axis be referenced prior to running any gcode. If you have the manual oiler you can, of course, give things a shot at any time. With the automatic oiler you can only oil if the spindle is running (or at least has been on since the last tool change).

[C*H*U*D]

I HAVE a tormach and perform a simple full axis travel test at startup. For me I can verify the machine has full axis travel and no problems, obstructions, whatever. I also listen to the motors and drive system to verify operation sounds good. This also turns spindle on and that turns lube system on and allows me to do a quick manual lube. I cant say if its going to make much of a difference in accuracy, I do know one thing IT WONT hurt it . IMHO almost everything you do will have some impact on the performance of these machines and more expensive ones. I have read over the years how much a waste of time this is or that is "the one I like the most is machine leveling " and how this is a waste of time........ when a little thing like that will and does make a difference on performance.
In short it wont hurt nothing.

I agree.

I think too many people here are getting hung up on the word "warmup". I have a full axis travel program that I run as well, and for the same reasons listed above. It runs all axis' to full travel at increasing speeds, as well as runs the spindle in increasing speeds. I hit my manual oiler a few times while it runs. I don't do it for accuracy, but rather to get oil on the full extent of my ways, and to make sure everything sounds right.

And how much of a time crunch are some of you on that a 5 minute warmup run is too much time to waste? I kick off the machine, and while it's spinning away, I get everything else set up. I know people use their Tormachs for production, and I do from time to time as well, but mostly this is a hobby machine for me...a 5 minute "warmup" really doesn't have much impact in the grand scheme of things.

[RA-Bowtie]

Doing "warm-up" on ANY machine in this class is a complete waste of time, and will certainly make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the machines performance. That is something that is necessary to get the nth degree of accuracy out of a VERY high-end machine, but it will make no measurable difference on a Tormach or any other hobby-level machine.

Regards,
Ray L.

Hi Ray,

I asked these questions a couple of years ago and you're right.
But as a complete novice, it seemed (at the time) to be a valid question.
Thanks for the input.

Michael

[RA-Bowtie]

Hello Michael
What a waste of time Micheal!
You get onto a forum and ask a simple question about an item... (warm up g code) now to me that looks like your asking for someone to help you with a little g code to do a warm up on your machine, for what ever reason that is your problem....
The result was some 32 reply’s later to end up writing your own........ The so called experts of the world came back with comment to do with weather you need it or not (not the question asked) , and then you get the history and performance details of heat and ball screws and what ever else (again not the question).
Why is it so hard for the knowlidgeable to answer the Oh! so simple question without showing the size of their testies and ranting on about sh,t that doesn’t matter, and then still not give you the answer you are asking for....... this is a forum for cnc enthusiasts full time part time or beginners,
If you wish to debate the need to run a warm up programme start another thread. And if you want to discuss the temperature of different workshops around the world, again start another thread, why is it so difficult for people to just answer the simple question....
It seems to me that these forums are for making the newbies of the world feel like simpletons while giving the testosterone fill egomaniacs amongst us an opportunity to vent or stretch their knowledge muscles on the weaker of the species....... I think they call that bullying
This will probably upset a few but you want to have a look at some of the threads.
The question is asked by some one new to the scene..".... and then off it goes into usually a rant about I’ve been doing this for years or I have repaired these machine for centuries and so on and so forth usually between a couple of knowledgeable big wigs........ meanwhile the newbie with the question has to wait until one of the big heads admit defeat..... sorry one of the big heads doesn’t reply because secretly they know they have been beaten by the other (dam you!,)

And then maybe the question will be answered or the winner of the cnc battle moves on not being able to answer the question anyway!!! And no one says hello goodbye good luck kiss my a%se or anything nice????

G'day mate,

You know, I had to read your post a couple of times, just to figure out what your point is/was.

I'll address your points in the order that you made them....

I didn't write the g-code program, one of the other members (on here) did it for me.


As a novice, I don't agree or disagree with a lot of the replies that I got, as I don't have the experience..... hence, I don't have an opinion.

I don't have a complex, maybe you do, but I don't.

I believe that if people are prepared to take the time to write a reply, the least I can do is take
notice of what they say and do more homework.

It's up to ME to smarten up....it's NOT up to them to dumb down.

If I don't understand something, I'll ask.

Knowledge cures ignorance.

I checked your history of posts and you (don't seem) to have anything to do with Tormach machines.
So why get on here and "stir the pot"..... As I always say... don't argue with a fool, they will beat you
with experience every time.

I genuinely appreciate the time that these guys take to reply to peoples questions on here. I've learned so
much from just reading and re-reading.

And some of us actually have a sense of humor!


Michael

[wildwhl]

I run a *start-up* program that is more to put machine through the motions/full range travel, get the spindle going, and the gears in my own head turning. I suck the remaining chips out of the chip trays as this program runs, get my mind straight, and observe for any odd noises or travel/motion that shouldn't be there. This in no way warms up the machine (ok technically it must, but that isn't the goal) but it does in fact help me find faults before they get out of line.

This is how/when I noticed the cracked cable cover on the X stepper...among other minor issues over the past year.

I think it's good practice for a fool like me.

WW

[Bob La Londe]

This is a Tormach forum so it seems reasonable that posts relate to Tormach machines.

Insofar as I know all recent versions of Pathpilot require that the axis be referenced prior to running any gcode. If you have the manual oiler you can, of course, give things a shot at any time. With the automatic oiler you can only oil if the spindle is running (or at least has been on since the last tool change).

That would suck if you are leaving a part setup to work on it the next day and you are a little OCD about your reference. Its always a good idea to home before you start except in when it isn't. LOL.

[kstrauss]

You only have to re-reference if you shut down PP so you can always leave things powered up overnight. It is my understanding that the stepper controllers don't retain knowledge of which microstep they are on so there could be a change of position simply from powering down and back on. At the beginning of any job where accuracy matters I always mill a feature (circular pocket) that I can use for realignment if a utility power failure or other problem forces me to re-reference.

[Bob La Londe]

Sorry. I've been reading up on Tormachs for years and I keep trying to convince myself to buy one, although that's not why I originally replied to this post. I didn't even know it was in the Tormach board. I just saw "warm up program" in a new posts list, and its something I have thought about doing myself.

[sh1224]

Hello Michael,
thankyou for your response,
I feel I may owe you an explanation
I was just commenting how it was funny (sence of humour) that you asked a question and from the replies that you got on the forum that you had to Wait 30 odd replies before some G code was forth coming and it was from you.
As for why I was on here, Well silly as it sounds I googled warmup G code and was directed to this forum, I was not trying to stir the pot as you say, and unaware of any complex that I might have (sorry) I read the responses from the beginning (doing my homework) and was frustrated for you that you were not be getting what you were after.
As for you being a novice and not having an opinion, I feel sorry that you feel that your opinions are worthless.
I agree with your opinion about knowledge curing ignorance and that you should smarten up as you say, And I too appreciate the time and energy that is put into the forums.
The point That I was trying to make was that your time is just as important as theirs.
The fact that they were hijacking the forum to talk about the temperature of their workshops and the deviation the temperature makes to their machine was of no help to you or me,
I guess I was just looking out for you, in my own complex kind of way.
I was not having a go at you or anyone else in particular I was just commenting on how people let their ego’s get in the way sometimes, and how that does not help the less informed of us who are just trying to get a simple answer to a simple question.
On that note I will stop letting my ego get in the way any longer and end my response.
sorry for wasting your time
hope you succeed in your quest for the elusive g code.
And I hope you learn to appreciate your own opinions
have a merry xmas
cheers
sh1224