Buying a PCNC 1100 Series 3 - Suggestions on My List

[smokediver576]

** Updated list based on all the great feedback - thanks for the help and suggestions **

For now I'm going to leave the tooling packages as is. For my purpose I can see a need for most of what's in these kits. I'm going to add some of the Ebay ER tooling that was suggested as time goes on after I see what I need. I am going to order the pendant control P4SE. Figured I'd leave the oil and coolant from Tormach for this first run. Items like rotary table and clamping, offsets and such I already have.

32085 - PCNC 1100 Series 3 - Manual Oiler - $8,480.00
30297 - PCNC 1100 Deluxe Machine Stand $1,644.50
34437 - Cable Kit for Tormach PCNC 1100 / PCNC 770 $39.95
31446 - Lifting Bar $93.21
34917 - Tormach Machine Controller w/Mach3 $715.00
31289 - USB Bulkhead Port Assembly $32.88
31947 - Basic 3 Piece Indicator Set $75.16
31760 - Work Stop $26.18
32394 - TTS Tooling for the Deluxe Package $490.99
32284 - CNC Operator's Set with Tool Assistant Set $795.00
31807 - Modular Tension/Compression Tapping Head Kit $345.73
33031 - TTS SuperFly Cutter Kit for PCNC Packages $148.50
31925 - (2) Floating Tramp Oil Collection Pillow $20.70
31386 - Machine Oil $34.50
31750 - Premier 600 Synthetic Coolant - 1 Gal. $25.03
32864-PKG - SprutCAM - PCNC Post only $1,040.00
31706 - PCNC 1100 Power Drawbar $1,193.50
31728 - Power Drawbar Foot Pedal Kit $68.45
31991 - Pneumatic Hose Kit for Power Draw Bar/ATC/Fogbuster $16.23
33212 - Haimer Zero Master - Analog (Inch) w/ TTS Holder $429.75
32700 - Pro Ring Light with SuperBright LEDs $32.50
31759 -(2) 5" CNC Vise $590.00
31760 - Work Stop $26.18
31789 - (2) 2pc Vise Alignment Keys with Screws for 5" CNC Vise $28.06
31273 - Anti-seize $2.95
32447 - TTS Diamond Drag Engraver Kit $68.79
32452 - 90° Replacement Diamond Drag Engraver Bit $23.99
32453 - 120° Replacement Diamond Drag Engraver Bit $23.99
32430 - TTS 0.5" Saw Arbor $46.50
34395 - (2) HSS Slitting Saw: 2" x 1/32" x 1/2" x 28T $23.50
34394 - (2) HSS Slitting Saw: 2" x 1/16" x 1/2" x 28T $23.50
32655 - Pin Spanner Wrench $8.75
32682 - Fog Buster Spray Coolant Kit $365.00
33034 - Compact TTS Tool Tightening Fixture $32.48

Total $17,031.25

[IrishMiller]

Smokediver... did you take the plunge and make the purchase? If so what has your first experiences been with setting up the machine and the accessory purchases that you made?

[smokediver576]

Smokediver... did you take the plunge and make the purchase? If so what has your first experiences been with setting up the machine and the accessory purchases that you made?

I actually found a brand new (July of 2012) machine that a guy had purchased, set up, dry run (never cut the first piece of metal or aluminum) and stopped at figuring out how to run the CAM side. Fully loaded system, ATC, 4th axis, ton of tools. Only problem for me was that it was in Ft Collins CO.... I'm just north of Atlanta GA. So, jumped on a plane, got a Uhaul, loaded it up and drove back cross country. Less than 48 hours from the time I walked out my front door to go catch the flight, I was back home with the machine in the back of the Uhaul. Was an insane driving trip (by myself). The seller could not have been more helpful! This guy even went as far as measuring the bolt to bolt on his pallet jack and finding out that they were 1/2" too wide to fit up the ramp. He removed the bolts, put then in his lathe and machined the heads down to fit. He had motorcycle lifts that we put under the ramp for support. An electric winch that we bolted to the floor of the Uhaul and pulled that puppy up. He had built pallets and done a ton of the breakdown work ahead of time.

All in all I came out extremely well. The only problem for me is that my primary work is keeping me from setting it up. It's killing me to see it sitting in the garage and not being able to run something on it!!!!!

Unfortunately, it's going to have to sit there until after Shot Show in January. Once the dust settles from that I'm hoping to be able to put some time on it.

I'm so glad I picked the Tormach. There is a ton of people out here willing to do anything to help you get up and running.

[BAMCNC.COM]

If you are still thinking about that list I could save you a thousand pretty easy. Lots of that stuff is worthless, and you would be better off going another route/cheaper too!

[Steve Seebold]

Before you consider what's on your list, decide what kind of work you're going to be doing and buy tools accordingly.

When I bought my machine, I had a pretty good idea what I was going to do with it so I bought the tools I thought I needed. So far, the tools I chose have worked out well for me.

[smokediver576]

If you are still thinking about that list I could save you a thousand pretty easy. Lots of that stuff is worthless, and you would be better off going another route/cheaper too!

Yep, that list pretty much went out the window when I bought my mill from a guy in Ft Collins CO. However, I did buy the air compressor from Tormach. Wow, I never knew an air compressor could be so quiet!

[MichaelHenry]

Yep, that list pretty much went out the window when I bought my mill from a guy in Ft Collins CO. However, I did buy the air compressor from Tormach. Wow, I never knew an air compressor could be so quiet!

It gets a lot noisier once it gets above 80-90 psig. Best not to leave it on 24/7 as its not really meant for that sort of duty Mine crapped out after about 18 months and I gave it to a friend, who discovered a piece of debris in one of the valves. He cleaned out the debris and its running fine for him, so check that if yours ever stops working.

Mike

[jdholbrook]

If you are still thinking about that list I could save you a thousand pretty easy. Lots of that stuff is worthless, and you would be better off going another route/cheaper too!

BAMCNC. share the knowlege.
I've been going through each post in this thread trying to customize my order.
Going whole hog with PCNC 1100 "Parts Maker" kit and the Slant-PRO.
In the process of whittling down the list based on these posts and common sense.
Any info you might want to share will be appreciated.

Added in the Load meter, Haimer and spare tip,
What about these.
31875 - Tool Setter $862.40
31759 - 5" CNC Vise $295.00 - Is the Tomach vice up to the job?

My current list for the PCNC 1100:

32085 - PCNC 1100 Series 3 Oiler Options: 32383 - Automatic Oiler for PCNC 1100 $8,689.00
34427 - Full Enclosure Kit for PCNC 1100 $2,460.00
30297 - PCNC 1100 Deluxe Machine Stand w/ Coolant Kit $1,644.50
34437 - Cable Kit for Tormach PCNC 1100 / PCNC 770 $39.95
31446 - Lifting Bar $93.21
31289 - USB Bulkhead Port Assembly $32.88
32279 - Automatic Tool Changer for PCNC 1100 Series 3 $4,200.00
32329 - ATC Pressure Sensor $126.50
31706 - PKG - PCNC 1100 Power Drawbar $1,193.50
31728 - Power Drawbar Foot Pedal Kit $68.45
31991 - Pneumatic Hose Kit for Power Draw Bar/ATC/Fogbuster $16.23
31759 - 5" CNC Vise $295.00
31789 - 2pc Vise Alignment Keys with Screws for 5" CNC Vise $14.03
32580 - 58 PC Pro Quality Steel Clamp Kit $64.63
31829 - TTS-ER20 $173.75
30584 - ER20 Collet Set (30 Pcs.) $372.00
34086 - ER20/ER16 Deluxe TTS Wrench Set $29.95
31875 - Tool Setter $862.40
33443 - 4 Flute HSS End Mill Set (5 Pieces) $35.55
33465 - 2 Flute HSS End Mill Set (5 Pieces) $32.18
31925 - Floating Tramp Oil Collection Pillow $10.35
30790 - Integrated Remote E-stop Kit $105.33
33212 - Haimer Zero Master - Analog (Inch) w/ TTS Holder $429.75
31992 - Imperial Ball Replacement Tip for Haimer Zero Master/ 3D Sensor $41.80
32096 - Load Meter (PCNC 1100 Series 3) $124.50
31988 - Tormach Tool Assistant Set $239.80
31713 - Small Granite Surface Plate with Integrated Tool Hole $26.68
33034 - Compact TTS Tool Tightening Fixture $32.48
31829 - TTS-ER20 $347.50
31826 - TTS-JT2 $17.29
31828 - TTS-JT6 $17.29
31820 - TTS-3/8" Set Screw Holder $86.96
31818 - TTS-1/4" Set Screw Holder $86.96
31821 - TTS-1/2" Set Screw Holder $108.70

[tmarks11]

I would strongly recommend that you post your proposed Slant pro list in the Slant pro forum so we can pick it apart there.

Tormach offers a large number of redundant tool forms, where most people pick a couple indexable shapes that does 95% of all cuts, I have seen others propose buying one of every tool that Tormach sells for the lathe, which is a big mistake.

[jdholbrook]

I would strongly recommend that you post your proposed Slant pro list in the Slant pro forum so we can pick it apart there.

Tormach offers a large number of redundant tool forms, where most people pick a couple indexable shapes that does 95% of all cuts, I have seen others propose buying one of every tool that Tormach sells for the lathe, which is a big mistake.

Looking forward to posting my wish list
I saw the recommendation to leave off the CNC Operators set for $800 and just get what you need.
Looking back at my past experience on the mill and lathe. There were only a few tools that I used 90% of the time, the rest were for those odd situations.

[tmarks11]

31829 - TTS-ER20 $173.75
30584 - ER20 Collet Set (30 Pcs.) $372.00
34086 - ER20/ER16 Deluxe TTS Wrench Set $29.95
31829 - TTS-ER20 $347.50
31826 - TTS-JT2 $17.29
31828 - TTS-JT6 $17.29
31820 - TTS-3/8" Set Screw Holder $86.96
31818 - TTS-1/4" Set Screw Holder $86.96
31821 - TTS-1/2" Set Screw Holder $108.70

People seem to buy the complete collet set so they can hold any drill bit they want in a collet. Others buy several drill chucks so they can do the same (for far less money). Personally, I go for drill chucks. If you do, than definitely buy at least 2 or 3 1/4" chucks, so you don't have to swap drill bits (and lose the tool zero) in the middle of a run. I see the advantage of collets, if you have a size you use a lot, you can leave it in the ATC, and it doesn't require as much headroom as a drill chuck.

Also, endmill holder or collets for your endmills? Redundant. If you want collets, than buy 3 or 4 collets of the size associated with the endmill you use (1/4", 3/8", 1/2"). I go with endmill holders, but that is a personal preference (I am guessing you are doing that and the ER20s are for drills). But I would recommend chose one or the other.

31988 - Tormach Tool Assistant Set $239.80
31713 - Small Granite Surface Plate with Integrated Tool Hole $26.68
31875 - Tool Setter $862.40

Again, one or the other. Either you will touch off tools when they are in the spindle to establish tool height (which I do, although with a $90 non-automatic tool setter instead of a fancy one), or you will use the "tool assistant". I started out thinking I would use a height gage and the granite plate, but found that was a pain. Easy just to put them in the spindle and measure them with mach3.

Here is a page of "manual" cheap alternatives for the tool setter:

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Measuring Tools, Cutting Tools and Shop Supplies

And I use this:

[WOTDesigns]

People seem to buy the complete collet set so they can hold any drill bit they want in a collet. Others buy several drill chucks so they can do the same (for far less money).

I would recommend you do one or the other. Personally, I go for drill chucks. If you do, than definitely buy at least a couple 1/4" chucks, so you don't have to swap drill bits (and lose the tool zero) in the middle of a run. I see the advantage of collets, if you have a size you use a lot, you can leave it in the ATC, and it doesn't require as much headroom as a drill chuck.

Also, endmill holder or collets for your enamels? Redundant. If you want collets, than buy 3 or 4 collets of the size associated with the endemic you use (1/4", 3/8", 1/2"). I go with endmill holders, but that is a personal preference. But I would recommend chose one or the other.


Again, one or the other. Either you will touch off tools when they are in the spindle to establish tool height (which I do, although with a $90 non-automatic tool setter instead of a fancy one), or you will use the "tool assistant". I started out thinking I would use a height gage and the granite plate, but found that was a pain. Easy just to put them in the spindle and measure them with mach3.

Here is a page of "manual" cheap alternatives for the tool setter:

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Measuring Tools, Cutting Tools and Shop Supplies

And I use this:

+1 I counted 50 TTS holders yesterday and only use 10. Drill chucks and er holders with. 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2 collects usually. Set screw holders are good for very common tools like a spot drill you will use all the time, but er holders take less than 90 seconds to pull out a 1/4 stubby end mill and install a 1/4 long end mill for the next project. I have set screw holders I broke a tool off in a year ago that still sit there with the broken tool.

On my HAAS the only set screw holder I have is for my 1/4" 4 flute chamfer mill. My 1/2 spot drill could use one too but everything else is ER collects. Much more versatile and easier to change tooling with.

Touching off on machine takes seconds per tool so setting up off machine for more $$$$ makes no sense to me. Especially if you have to transfer data manually.

Brian
WOT Designs

[mountaindew]

BAMCNC. share the knowlege.
I've been going through each post in this thread trying to customize my order.
Going whole hog with PCNC 1100 "Parts Maker" kit and the Slant-PRO.
In the process of whittling down the list based on these posts and common sense.
Any info you might want to share will be appreciated.

Added in the Load meter, Haimer and spare tip,
What about these.
31875 - Tool Setter $862.40
31759 - 5" CNC Vise $295.00 - Is the Tomach vice up to the job?

My current list for the PCNC 1100:

32085 - PCNC 1100 Series 3 Oiler Options: 32383 - Automatic Oiler for PCNC 1100 $8,689.00
34427 - Full Enclosure Kit for PCNC 1100 $2,460.00
30297 - PCNC 1100 Deluxe Machine Stand w/ Coolant Kit $1,644.50
34437 - Cable Kit for Tormach PCNC 1100 / PCNC 770 $39.95
31446 - Lifting Bar $93.21
31289 - USB Bulkhead Port Assembly $32.88
32279 - Automatic Tool Changer for PCNC 1100 Series 3 $4,200.00
32329 - ATC Pressure Sensor $126.50
31706 - PKG - PCNC 1100 Power Drawbar $1,193.50
31728 - Power Drawbar Foot Pedal Kit $68.45
31991 - Pneumatic Hose Kit for Power Draw Bar/ATC/Fogbuster $16.23
31759 - 5" CNC Vise $295.00
31789 - 2pc Vise Alignment Keys with Screws for 5" CNC Vise $14.03
32580 - 58 PC Pro Quality Steel Clamp Kit $64.63
31829 - TTS-ER20 $173.75
30584 - ER20 Collet Set (30 Pcs.) $372.00
34086 - ER20/ER16 Deluxe TTS Wrench Set $29.95
31875 - Tool Setter $862.40
33443 - 4 Flute HSS End Mill Set (5 Pieces) $35.55
33465 - 2 Flute HSS End Mill Set (5 Pieces) $32.18
31925 - Floating Tramp Oil Collection Pillow $10.35
30790 - Integrated Remote E-stop Kit $105.33
33212 - Haimer Zero Master - Analog (Inch) w/ TTS Holder $429.75
31992 - Imperial Ball Replacement Tip for Haimer Zero Master/ 3D Sensor $41.80
32096 - Load Meter (PCNC 1100 Series 3) $124.50
31988 - Tormach Tool Assistant Set $239.80
31713 - Small Granite Surface Plate with Integrated Tool Hole $26.68
33034 - Compact TTS Tool Tightening Fixture $32.48
31829 - TTS-ER20 $347.50
31826 - TTS-JT2 $17.29
31828 - TTS-JT6 $17.29
31820 - TTS-3/8" Set Screw Holder $86.96
31818 - TTS-1/4" Set Screw Holder $86.96
31821 - TTS-1/2" Set Screw Holder $108.70

With hamier probe combined with a tool height and granite touch off plate works perfect with the mach tool database, My machine has 50 tools in the database and in racks ready for use in any program. All I do is load code, run and change tools.

The tool setter from what I understand is for atc combined with all your code using the same tool slots 1 to x . Using this system to load a new set of tools in atc and automatic height set of those tools to be used in that run with that code.
I don't see another use for the $$$ tool setter if all tools and tool heights are preset mach tool database.
I guess production work with lots of tool wear and atc a "tool setter" system would have advantages, also if inexperienced people are to operate machine.
Or prototype work with a large diverse set of tools, touch plate, hamier probe would have advantages of preset database with few changes and uniform code by cam program.

So many strategies to consider.
md

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Seems to me, arguing time-savings using touch-off vs a height gauge is a bit specious. I use a height gauge, and it take me 60-90 seconds to measure all tools for a "typical" job (6-10 tools). I'll then run those tools for up to 8 hours, sometimes more. Doing it by touching off will take at least as long, as each tool needs to be loaded and unloaded to/from the spindle.

Bottom line, both approaches work equally well, neither will save enough time to make the slightest difference, even doing one-off parts. And, with both approaches, if you simply record the tool lengths, you'll never have to measure a tool again until you have to replace it due to wear or breakage.

Like so many things in this business, there is no "best". There is simply what you are most comfortable with.

Regards,
Ray L.

[tmarks11]

Bottom line, both approaches work equally well, neither will save enough time to make the slightest difference, even doing one-off parts. .

Bottom line: chose one or the other approach; no need to buy extra equipment so you can do it both ways (i.e., buying tool setter AND tool assistant set)

Since you are buying the ATC, the Tool Setter might be a good (expensive!) choice, since you can touch off the entire tray with the push of a button.

Here is a non-Tormach alternative to the Tormach Tool Setter that some of the participants in this forum have. $229 is a bit more affordable.

TLO setter v2.1 - CNCneeds

[jdholbrook]

Some great advice!
I will get the Tool Setter and also spring for the TLO setter v2.1.
I can see the benefit of having both.
Also I will get the Hamier for setting work piece zero etc.. (I never trusted edgefinders, is it wiggling or not?)

What about the vise? I have used the CNC type vise in the past and liked it. In fact I dug it out. Still in great shape.
The 5" CNC Vise looks nice although the $300 vise jaw set seems a little over priced.
I'm not too keen on those Kurt type that get bolted to the table. Seems to take up a lot of room and can't be moved etc.
I've even clamped a CNC vise in another CNC vise.
They just seem more versatile to me. Maybe I'm missing the finer points of the Kurt type??

Tooling plates??
I really like that Tosa Tools Modular Tooling Plate TT1634
Little pricey but I think for prototyping it would be very handy. Also I will be working with some large items and would be nice to have the extra clamping options.

[WOTDesigns]

I prefer having separate 4 inch CNC vise (open much more than the 5" from Tormach) and a couple Glacern CNC 6"ers. MUCH easier to find accessories, actually come in matched height pairs, more room, more versatile, MUCH higher quality. You can't even purchase the replacement jaws that come with the Tormach CNC Vise. Mine broke and they sent me 1" thick jaws that limit the total opening to just over 3"... on a 5 inch vise... ridiculous.

current glacern discount offerings (on their site)
Coupon Code: TISTHESEASON - $20 off shipping on all orders!
Coupon Code: HAPPYHOLIDAYS - $75 off shipping on orders over $1500!
Coupon Code: 15OFF500 - $15 off orders $500 or more!
Coupon Code: 20OFF550 - $20 off orders $550 or more!
Coupon Code: 35OFF1000 - $35 off orders $1000 or more!
Coupon Code: 75OFF2000 - $75 off orders $2000 or more!
Coupon Code: 30TOSHIP - Save $30 on shipping for orders $350+

They are $600 but to me they are worth it. The whole "5 inch fits better" is an epic load of BS since it only has a 3.5" throat when the jaws get replaced it is less useful than a 4" vise with 5" or 6" steel soft jaws as it will have a larger opening. I can put my glacern 6 next to the 5" Tormach and have more useful clamping space on the Glacern since it can hold a 6" (in the Y axis) part and still reach all of it.

[mountaindew]

I can see the benefit of having both.
Also I will get the Hamier for setting work piece zero etc.. (I never trusted edgefinders, is it wiggling or not?)

I would suggest a couple tts Weldon set screw holders for 2 edge finders "1 standard and 1 for small holes" you will find the Hamier will not always work for thin edges and or in real life many times you must work off a existing location and a small hole is easy to locate and all cam operations can be programmed off it.
Also you need a good interapid indicator to setup and keep the Hamier adjusted. I would again suggest before you do a precision run of parts to check and adjust the Hamier.

Another note for your shopping list! Good Cad and Cam software imho turns my tormach from a 1k lb paper weight into a precision tool than is awesome!
md

[jdholbrook]

Another note for your shopping list! Good Cad and Cam software imho turns my tormach from a 1k lb paper weight into a precision tool than is awesome!

That is a whole nother can of worms and probably deserves a new thread.
In the past I used Solidworks and if I remember, BobCAM.
Of course the license for both have been long lost.
Watching videos on SprutCAM. It seems nice but something about it just doesn't set right with me.
I downloaded CAMBAM and have used it to run the laser cutter.

It wouldn't take much to get back into Solidworks as I was pretty proficient with it back in the day.
HSMWorks for CAM ??
Another approach may be Autodesk Inventor and Inventor HSM or Inventor Cam.
I've already been making 3D printed parts using Inventor student edition.

Probably better to start a new thread about Cad and Cam and the finer points of SprutCAM etc..

[MichaelHenry]

Tooling plates??
I really like that Tosa Tools Modular Tooling Plate TT1634
Little pricey but I think for prototyping it would be very handy. Also I will be working with some large items and would be nice to have the extra clamping options.

They just had a 25% off sale - maybe if you ask nicely you can talk them into an extension.

Mike