What a bunch of great guys

[Steve Seebold]

I want to brag on what a bunch of great guys there are at Tormach.

Andy, Matt and Daniel.

I had a problem about a month ago and it took almost a week to get to the bottom if it, but they stuck with me until the end.

It started about this time last month. I had gone camping for the weekend and when I came home I turned my machine on and when I hit the REFXYZ button, the Z axis instead of going up went into free fall. I hit the E-stop button and tried again and got the same result.

Now, mind you, I am far from an electronics wizard and if I press the button and that doesn't work, I need to call someone.

OK, I called and spoke with Daniel, and after a while Andy got involved. After a while it was determined that my control computer has crashed so since I am still under warranty they agreed to send me another one. Well, I got the new one the next day and got it in line in about an hour. I thought WHEW, that was easy.

Again I pressed the XYZREF button and again, the Z axis went into free fall. ANOTHER call to Andy to tell him that nothing has changed. This time, Matt got involved and after a lot of voltage and resistance checking, Matt told Andy to send me a new Z axis stepper motor. The motor got here about 4 days later.

I got that installed the next day, and when I hit the XYZREF button, it took off like it was supposed to and worked fine for the rest of the week.

Now tomorrow we'll see. I went away for 4 days again and tomorrow I'll be making parts again.

Thanks so much Andy Daniel and Matt for all your help.

Steve Seebold

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[pickled]

They are good folks that actually care and readily admit when they don't know something. I really hope that Tormach can maintain that part of their culture as they grow. Being able to get on the phone or bounce emails back and forth with people that you know and trust is huge! They are good people and I hope that Greg appreciates his team and, more importantly, I hope that they all know it.

[RussMachine]

THAT is the main reason why I bought a TORMACH.
Customer service and support.
If I had bought a used Mini-Mill from brand "XYZ", I would be on my own for parts, repairs, and tech help.
OR, pay through the nose for a repairman.

[MFchief]

+1 on RussMachine

I looked at a few competitors, but I was fortunate enough to find this forum prior to purchase, and the almost universal praise for Tormach drove my choice. I couldn't be more pleased!
Terry

[TurboStep]

After a while it was determined that my control computer has crashed

I may be missing something, but what I think you are saying is that they initially decided your Z axis went into fee fall due to a defective controller PC. That turned out not to be the cause, and Matt finally determined that it was due to a defective stepper motor. Is that about right?
Step

[mountaindew]

I may be missing something, but what I think you are saying is that they initially decided your Z axis went into fee fall due to a defective controller PC. That turned out not to be the cause, and Matt finally determined that it was due to a defective stepper motor. Is that about right?
Step

And I was thinking I was only person confused.

md

[bevinp]

I may be missing something, but what I think you are saying is that they initially decided your Z axis went into fee fall due to a defective controller PC. That turned out not to be the cause, and Matt finally determined that it was due to a defective stepper motor. Is that about right?
Step

Step, I have the idea that you think Tormach support should have identified the cause the first time. If you do think that then I offer the following observation in defence of Tormach support decisions, having spent some years providing telephone support to end users of a software package. If you don't think that then probably we are on the same page.

Diagnosing over the phone an unusual fault that could have a number of causes is not easy. And as the owner honestly stated, he was not able to provide much assistance the over the phone. Yes the first attempt didn't work so a third techo became involved and solution eventually identified. And yes, with hindsight the stepper could have been higher on the list of probable causes. But, I am not aware of the experiences that Tormach has gained with this type of fault during the ten years or so of designing and rectifying faults of the mill. I suspect nor are you.

Whatever the reason for a wrong first attempt, the fault was rectified, probably at no cost to the owner, certainly without blaming the owner for misuse, and the owner was kept aware of the decisions if not actually on the phone during the discussions. The controller was overnight couriered and I suspect the stepper took four days because it came from overseas. And I assume this was all at no cost to the owner. I suspect the machine was out of warranty.

I think the manner in which Tormach responded in this case is typical of every case I have had and of every case posted here. Way, way above average, considering the price of the machine, and the absence of annual fees for support.

Bevin

[Steve Seebold]

Step, I have the idea that you think Tormach support should have identified the cause the first time. If you do think that then I offer the following observation in defence of Tormach support decisions, having spent some years providing telephone support to end users of a software package. If you don't think that then probably we are on the same page.

Diagnosing over the phone an unusual fault that could have a number of causes is not easy. And as the owner honestly stated, he was not able to provide much assistance the over the phone. Yes the first attempt didn't work so a third techo became involved and solution eventually identified. And yes, with hindsight the stepper could have been higher on the list of probable causes. But, I am not aware of the experiences that Tormach has gained with this type of fault during the ten years or so of designing and rectifying faults of the mill. I suspect nor are you.

Whatever the reason for a wrong first attempt, the fault was rectified, probably at no cost to the owner, certainly without blaming the owner for misuse, and the owner was kept aware of the decisions if not actually on the phone during the discussions. The controller was overnight couriered and I suspect the stepper took four days because it came from overseas. And I assume this was all at no cost to the owner. I suspect the machine was out of warranty.

I think the manner in which Tormach responded in this case is typical of every case I have had and of every case posted here. Way, way above average, considering the price of the machine, and the absence of annual fees for support.

Bevin

Bevin, when Tormach did the computer swap I paid for overnight shipping. The stepper motor took 4 days because I cheaped out and let them send it by USPS Priority Mail. Besides, I needed a couple of days to rest up from my vacation.

I bought the extended warranty when I bought my machine, so I was covered for the first 2 years. Since the second year expired in July 2013, I have renewed it every year since then, and I will continue to renew it for as long as they will let me.

Needless to say, I love my Tormach. I have said before I am the former owner of a real CNC machine shop where I had a FADAL and a Haas machining center and my Tormach will do ANYTHING those machines would do, it just takes a little longer.

[RussMachine]

Steve,
When you ran your 'real' CNC shop and your HAAS or FADAL broke down, what did you do for repairs or service?
Was there a company you used, or did you have a repair guy?
I ask because, the last big CNC shop that I worked at had absolutely ZERO maintenance or repair guys and nobody knew how to fix them if they went down.
Here in San Antonio, there are 'ZERO' CNC repair companies. We had to call a little old man from Houston to drive here for repairs.
He would camp out for a week and 'attempt' to get the machines up & running.
More times than not, he would take several weeks to fix them.

[Steve Seebold]

Steve,
When you ran your 'real' CNC shop and your HAAS or FADAL broke down, what did you do for repairs or service?
Was there a company you used, or did you have a repair guy?
I ask because, the last big CNC shop that I worked at had absolutely ZERO maintenance or repair guys and nobody knew how to fix them if they went down.
Here in San Antonio, there are 'ZERO' CNC repair companies. We had to call a little old man from Houston to drive here for repairs.
He would camp out for a week and 'attempt' to get the machines up & running.
More times than not, he would take several weeks to fix them.

I bought both machines new and I bought 1 year extended warranty on both machines, Fortunately, I never had a reason to call for service after that and I was running both machines 50 to 60 hours per week. I was always at the shop at 6:00 AM and I seldom got out before 8:00 PM Monday thru Thursday. I would quit by 4:00 PM on Friday and Saturday.

The stress eventually got to me and on October 17, 2007 about 1:30 in the afternoon I had a heart attack. The stress of ownership almost killed me so in early January, 2008 I sold the machines and tooling and closed the shop.

[TurboStep]

I've complemented Tormach more than once on this forum on providing us with a reasonably priced, well balanced and comprehensive system covering not only the mill but also full range of tooling and upgrades. I have also praised the machine manual for being unusually comprehensive, designed to help the user help himself. Steve has freely admitted that he is no electronics genius, which is perfectly fine, that's why Tormach also provide telephone and prompt e-mail support. I'm usually very bad at reading manuals myself, but I did read the PCNC1100 manual from cover to cover. In particular because this was my first (and so far only) CNC machine it helped me better understand how it worked - and why it didn''t

When I read Steve's post I immediately questioned why they replaced the controller. Was there another problem or just the Z axis "free fall"? I wasn't involved, so I might be very wrong, but from what I gather there appears to have been only one problem - the Z axis stepper motor.

For anyone who hasn't read the manual (and you should), perhaps you might better understand the thoughts behind my first response if you were to read the contents of table 4.2.

Step

[MLaVigne]

I had problems with dirty power causing my z-axis to fall. If the stepper driver gets garbage from the controller, it loses holding force and the spindle head falls and makes a "grinding" sound (the sound of steppers losing steps, not actual grinding).
My problem ended up being dirty power (when my compressors kicked on or something), but that might relate to why they replaced the controller.

Or it might be a completely different reason- just thought I'd offer some insight as to why the controller might have been the first trouble shooting step.

-Michael.

[TurboStep]

...just thought I'd offer some insight as to why the controller might have been the first trouble shooting step...

Did you check out table 4.2?

[GJeff]

Maybe they suggested replacing the stepper motor first, but Steve was like, "You mean I'm going to have to use a screwdriver? Is there anything else we can try first?" and they settled on the controller. j/k Steve

[Steve Seebold]

I've complemented Tormach more than once on this forum on providing us with a reasonably priced, well balanced and comprehensive system covering not only the mill but also full range of tooling and upgrades. I have also praised the machine manual for being unusually comprehensive, designed to help the user help himself. Steve has freely admitted that he is no electronics genius, which is perfectly fine, that's why Tormach also provide telephone and prompt e-mail support. I'm usually very bad at reading manuals myself, but I did read the PCNC1100 manual from cover to cover. In particular because this was my first (and so far only) CNC machine it helped me better understand how it worked - and why it didn''t

When I read Steve's post I immediately questioned why they replaced the controller. Was there another problem or just the Z axis "free fall"? I wasn't involved, so I might be very wrong, but from what I gather there appears to have been only one problem - the Z axis stepper motor.

For anyone who hasn't read the manual (and you should), perhaps you might better understand the thoughts behind my first response if you were to read the contents of table 4.2.

Step

It was Andy's idea to replace the controller first. It was a process of elimination. It turned out to be the stepper motor. I was lucky that my machine was only down for one week.