Best Practice (start and finish)

[mountaindew]

Wanted to get advice for key start up and shut down operations that everyone does.

Like tool and tool holder cleaning? Before, After, During?
What works best to clean tools and tool holders ?
Same Question for fixture cleaning?

Very basic shop operation questions, that I bet have been answered many times here.
Mostly want the newest and best advice from current cnc forum readers and users.

Thanks again!
Lane

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[RussMachine]

As for fixtures and tooling, I've found that the best care is to clean all chips and coolant from the fixture or vise, and store dry.
Remove all unused tools from their tool holders, and wipe everything down with a clean, dry rag, removing any moisture, chips, and coolant.
I don't use oil, except on the ways.
A clean dry tool won't attract rust, unless you have condensation issues.
NEVER use WD-40. It's a Rust-magnet!
When I'm done with a job, I like to clean up the machine and tools, so my next setup will be easier.

[mountaindew]

Ok
I was using wd-40 to clean all the shipping oils of new tools.
Guess I will avoid it on clean tools going forward.
I live in high mountain desert so moisture is not a big issue here . The average is like single digit humidity much of the year

Simple enough, just clean and wipe of tools and holders, store dry and oil free.

I see tormach and others sell never seize for the draw bar and collet I think.
I didn't find much for guidelines on use just where?
Also I see and read about a Loctite abrasive for tool holders , Anyone use it?

Lane

[SCzEngrgGroup]

"NEVER use WD-40. It's a Rust-magnet!" - I can't imagine what factual basis there could possibly be for such a blanket statement. I've used WD40 for spraying down my machines before they're going to sit for a long period, and I've never had even a hint of rust, even after many months in a very humid environment.

Regards,
Ray L.

[JohnToner]

Ditto!

[Kenny Duval]

If you know what the WD stand for you know that it's a load of crap that it will cause rust. The WD stands for water displacement and it was the 40th formula they produced.

WD-40 Frequently Asked Questions

What does WD-40 stand for?

WD-40 literally stands for Water Displacement, 40th formula. That's the name straight out of the lab book used by the chemist who developed the product back in 1953. The chemist, Norm Larsen, was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion—a task which is done by displacing water. Norm's persistence paid off when he perfected the formula on his 40th try. Please see Our History for more information.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Well, that's some mighty fine cherry-picking, but unfortunately the second sentence pretty much refutes your argument:

"The chemist, Norm Larsen, was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion—a task which is done by displacing water."

Perhaps while you're at it, you should read the REST of that FAQ:

How long does WD-40 Multi-Use Product last after application?

While this may vary depending on the application, WD-40 Multi-Use Product remains effective even after it appears to dry. The corrosion and rust protection ingredients remain adhered to the surface. External conditions may, of course, require additional applications of the product for maximum protection.

How is WD-40 Multi-Use Product different from 3-IN-ONE® Oil?

WD-40 Multi-Use Product is the ultimate multi-purpose problem solver. WD-40 removes gunk, penetrates to loosen stuck parts, prevents rust and corrosion, and is a light lubricant. 3-IN-ONE, with its special drip spout, enables you to apply product without any overspray or splatter. 3-IN-ONE is ideal to use on tools, rollers, hinges, in-line skates, wheels... nearly everything that moves.

What does WD-40 Multi-Use Product do?

WD-40 Multi-Use Product fulfills five basic functions:
1. LUBRICATES: The product's lubricating ingredients are widely dispersed and tenaciously held to all moving parts.
2. PENETRATES: WD-40 Multi-Use Product loosens rust-to-metal bonds and frees stuck, frozen or rusted metal parts.
3. PROTECTS: The product protects metal surfaces with corrosion-resistant ingredients to shield against moisture and other corrosive elements.
4. REMOVES: WD-40 Multi-Use Product gets under dirt, grime and grease. Use it to remove gunk from tools, equipment and vehicles. WD-40 Multi-Use Product in liquid form (e.g., gallon) also dissolves adhesives, allowing easy removal of excess bonding material.
5. DISPLACES MOISTURE: Because it displaces moisture, WD-40 Multi-Use Product quickly dries out electrical systems to eliminate moisture-induced short circuits.

So, it says, repeatedly, that it resists corrosion. That's quite a different thing from being a "Rust-magnet"....

Regards,
Ray L.

[mountaindew]

On the wd-40 issue and title of thread.
At this point Im mostly concerned about best ways to clean and maintain tools, holders and part fixtures. And any film left on tools or fixtures that could hurt performance as in slip.
Always good to learn more about wd-40.

Is wd-40 ok on tools and holders for cleaning then ?
No film, coating or problem with slipping?

much to learn

good info !!!
must be more ideas, opinions and secrets out there.

lane

[Kenny Duval]

Well, that's some mighty fine cherry-picking, but unfortunately the second sentence pretty much refutes your argument:

"The chemist, Norm Larsen, was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion—a task which is done by displacing water."

Perhaps while you're at it, you should read the REST of that FAQ:

How long does WD-40 Multi-Use Product last after application?

While this may vary depending on the application, WD-40 Multi-Use Product remains effective even after it appears to dry. The corrosion and rust protection ingredients remain adhered to the surface. External conditions may, of course, require additional applications of the product for maximum protection.

How is WD-40 Multi-Use Product different from 3-IN-ONE® Oil?

WD-40 Multi-Use Product is the ultimate multi-purpose problem solver. WD-40 removes gunk, penetrates to loosen stuck parts, prevents rust and corrosion, and is a light lubricant. 3-IN-ONE, with its special drip spout, enables you to apply product without any overspray or splatter. 3-IN-ONE is ideal to use on tools, rollers, hinges, in-line skates, wheels... nearly everything that moves.

What does WD-40 Multi-Use Product do?

WD-40 Multi-Use Product fulfills five basic functions:
1. LUBRICATES: The product's lubricating ingredients are widely dispersed and tenaciously held to all moving parts.
2. PENETRATES: WD-40 Multi-Use Product loosens rust-to-metal bonds and frees stuck, frozen or rusted metal parts.
3. PROTECTS: The product protects metal surfaces with corrosion-resistant ingredients to shield against moisture and other corrosive elements.
4. REMOVES: WD-40 Multi-Use Product gets under dirt, grime and grease. Use it to remove gunk from tools, equipment and vehicles. WD-40 Multi-Use Product in liquid form (e.g., gallon) also dissolves adhesives, allowing easy removal of excess bonding material.
5. DISPLACES MOISTURE: Because it displaces moisture, WD-40 Multi-Use Product quickly dries out electrical systems to eliminate moisture-induced short circuits.

So, it says, repeatedly, that it resists corrosion. That's quite a different thing from being a "Rust-magnet"....

Regards,
Ray L.

I have to assume one of 2 things. Either that wasn't a response to me or you just like to argue.

I was pointing out to "Mr. Rust-Magnet" that he's not fully informed on the topic of WD-40.

[shred]

WD-40 isn't the best for TTS tools since the lubrication can be an issue with pullout, but it doesn't seem to be any more rust-magnetic than anything else around the shop.

[Don Clement]

I use WD40 to clean and protect fixture, rotary table, vise, and mill table before mounting and during storage. To prevent pull out of TTS tools I clean the interface with alcohol and use Starrett M1 oil which I believe leaves a protective dry film unlike WD40. However flood coolant seems to always be drenching TTS tools anyhow. The best thing I did to prevent pull out was to lubricate the ¾” R8 collet, Bellevue washers, and power draw bar threads with Armite LP- 250 LP-250 & LP-250F Anti-Seize Thread & Sealing Compound

Don

BTW I just redid the head on my '97 Toyota Tacoma and Armite LP-250 works extremely well on the exhaust studs and nuts.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

I have to assume one of 2 things. Either that wasn't a response to me or you just like to argue.

I was pointing out to "Mr. Rust-Magnet" that he's not fully informed on the topic of WD-40.

Sorry, yes, I thought you were supporting the original claim. I don't know where these ideas come from. Many people are absolutely convinced WD40 actually promotes rust, which is simply not true.

Regards.
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

WD40 is great for cleaning the machine, vises etc. I buy it in gallon cans, and put it into spray bottles. It's really bad for cleaning TTS tool shanks, as it does leave an oily/waxy residue. I've found the best thing for cleaning TTS tool shanks is Acetone - does a great job of removing oil and grease, and leaves no residue at all.

Regards,
Ray L.

[cobrakai]

It is really up to you. But I do the following:
Chips- I let the coolant drain for about 4 hours before vacuuming up all chips. If you let it sit too long it can cause corrosion and will get sticky. If you vacuum it up too quickly, you will just suck up too much coolant and waste it.

Tooling- Clean all lube off the R8 collet gripping area and the inside of the ER collets using alcohol before the job. Also put some oil or grease down under your vise before clamping down to prevent corrosion from coolant getting under there. I don't live in a humid or salty environment, so I can simply leave them like that after the job is done.

[nitewatchman]

The best thing I did to prevent pull out was to lubricate the ¾” R8 collet, Bellevue washers, and power draw bar threads with Armite LP- 250 LP-250 & LP-250F Anti-Seize Thread & Sealing Compound

Don

I have to echo Don's recommendation.

I use Pure Nickel Never-Seize on the TTS System, a left over from my nuclear days. Would not suggest you buy this particular compound without taking out a loan (Nuclear Grade) but a metallic particle anti-seize compound applied to the collet shoulders and drawbar seems to be the difference in TTS Tooling working and not working.

The other device that has really helped for my ATC equipped 1100 is a small air-oil separator on the tool blast airline. Without the separator, the ATC lubed the shank of the TTC holder every time the tool was changed with a "cleaning" blast of lubricated air required for the other pneumatic devices in the ATC.

nitewatchman

[underthetire]

WD40 can cause issues with cast iron. I also avoid using it for anything but cleaning. Its not a rust "magnet" however it will cause the cast iron not to age correctly, and will eventually promote rust in certain areas. I prefer just a light spray oil or LPS3 if sitting a while, or shipping machines.

Sent from my G-Tab Quantum using Tapatalk

[bevinp]

I stopped using WD40 under the vise on my 1100 series 1 mill. My reason was that even after a week or so, removing the vise revealed a table stain matching the contact area between vise and table. The stain could not be removed with anything other than abrasive paper which I chose not to apply.

I believed this corrosion/staining was evidence of dissimilar-metal corrosion, the table being cast iron and the vise being cast steel. I don't think the coolant enabled the this "electrochemical process" (see Wikipedia) because I was using a soluble oil coolant initially and then changed to a synthetic coolant, both of which I could leave to dry on exposed surfaces for weeks without any corrosion (as I could with WD40). But I thought it might be the WD40 acting as the necessary electrolyte.

I then purchased CorrosionX oil (Corrosion Technologies) and now use it between the vise, rotary table, or any other metal worker-holder (including aluminum). No further corrosion/staining has occurred no matter how long I leave the vise etc on the table.

It would be nice to conduct an experiment to test whether WD40 acts as an electrolyte with dissimilar metals, with the variables of with or without coolant, dissimilar metals, and types of coolants. But I don't have the time or materials to do so. I have stopped any corrosion of coolant or dissimilar metals so I am content with my solution.

For what it's worth, as I posted in a similar "rust" CNCZone thread some years ago, the curators of the Australian National Museum have banned WD40 for use in maintenance of metal exhibits because it does leave a residue that causes subsequent problems and discoloration.
Bevin

[Don Clement]

I've found the best thing for cleaning TTS tool shanks is Acetone - does a great job of removing oil and grease, and leaves no residue at all.

Regards,
Ray L.

Moot point. When water soluble coolant is used the no residue TTS shank is compromised when changing tools unless one cleans the shank after every tool change. BTW I don't.

Don

[mountaindew]

Great
More good info. Thanks don, nite and others!
I have both acetone and alcohol for tts and collet cleaning. I was hoping I could use something common in my shop. (yeah don't have to order something)
Oh but I will have to order some anti seize for the draw bar washers and collet shoulders. (boo)

Looking at tts pictures and having tool storage holders over in machining area looks to me to be extra work keeping them clean in an area where milled materials are flying around.

Vise and some of the metal patina problems on mill table, I hope to avoid with vise keys so I can set and remove for cleanup with little indicating. I hope!

Great info everyone thanks ! keep it going.
Lane

[mike sr1]

I stopped using WD40 under the vise on my 1100 series 1 mill. My reason was that even after a week or so, removing the vise revealed a table stain matching the contact area between vise and table. The stain could not be removed with anything other than abrasive paper which I chose not to apply.

I believed this corrosion/staining was evidence of dissimilar-metal corrosion, the table being cast iron and the vise being cast steel. I don't think the coolant enabled the this "electrochemical process" (see Wikipedia) because I was using a soluble oil coolant initially and then changed to a synthetic coolant, both of which I could leave to dry on exposed surfaces for weeks without any corrosion (as I could with WD40). But I thought it might be the WD40 acting as the necessary electrolyte.

I then purchased CorrosionX oil (Corrosion Technologies) and now use it between the vise, rotary table, or any other metal worker-holder (including aluminum). No further corrosion/staining has occurred no matter how long I leave the vise etc on the table.

It would be nice to conduct an experiment to test whether WD40 acts as an electrolyte with dissimilar metals, with the variables of with or without coolant, dissimilar metals, and types of coolants. But I don't have the time or materials to do so. I have stopped any corrosion of coolant or dissimilar metals so I am content with my solution.

For what it's worth, as I posted in a similar "rust" CNCZone thread some years ago, the curators of the Australian National Museum have banned WD40 for use in maintenance of metal exhibits because it does leave a residue that causes subsequent problems and discoloration.
Bevin

I also use Corrosion X, good stuff.