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    Default Tapping heads.

    I have an 1100 and want to do threading, both external and internal.
    1. Internal - Tormach lists at least 3 (sure there are plenty of other brands), but not clear how to choose? I won't be using it that much and don't want to spend a fortune (mostly small taps in aluminum 1/4-20 and smaller) ... Recommendations?

    2. Most common way to do external? (again, small sizes)...


    Thanks!

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    If you need both internal and external, thread-milling is about your only option.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    I ordered the Tormach cheapie one.. will see how it goes.. now time to order a thread mill



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    Member Don Clement's Avatar
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    I use a Procunier reversing tapping head for small holes. The Procunier works especially well on blind holes using a cushioned double-cone clutch that stops within 1/3 rev. For larger holes and external threads I use thread milling. Here is an example of a 60mm-0.75mm external thread that was thread milled on my Tormach.

    Don





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    Thanks.. I looked at thread mills. On the tormach site they only show a single thread form - just for maximum flexibility? I'll get some form of cutter and try it out, just need to research how to write the code and speeds/feeds for it.



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    The coding for threadmilling is pretty straight forward. You just making a helical arc with the pitch of whatever thread you're cutting. The diameter is just your major Diamater- Tool diameter. I use CAM to figure it out, but you can do it by hand pretty easily with a lot of copy paste. I would recommend starting off with a single profile thread mill, as they are way cheaper and you can get multiple pitches from the same tool. Multi point thread mills are great for increasing productivity, but I would learn the basics first.

    Feeds and speeds are also pretty straightforward. Here is a great website that gives general SFM and Chiploads: TECHNICAL INFORMATION

    Do you have G-wizard? The "interpolate" mini calculation works great for adjusting your feed-rates to account for acceleration on internal threading.

    I use the cheapo tension compression head a good amount and it works fine if you keep it below 1000 RPM. There is a second so delay when the motor reverses and this is enough time to fully extend the spring and snap your tap if RPMs are too high. It takes some dialing in, but you can figure out exactly how much additional depth you are going to get for a given RPM and pitch. Once you figure that out, it is pretty consistent and you can tap blind holes no problem.

    If you are tapping small, blind holes a reversing tapping head like Don mentioned is your only option.



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    Member Don Clement's Avatar
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    I use Vardex thread milling multitooth inserts and their TM software.
    Vardex Thread Milling
    Vardex Thread Turning, Thread Milling & Miniature Threading | TM Gen

    Don



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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Clement View Post
    I use a Procunier reversing tapping head for small holes. The Procunier works especially well on blind holes using a cushioned double-cone clutch that stops within 1/3 rev...

    Don

    I'm interested in any other thoughts you have on the Procunier. I produce a part on my 1100 that includes a 0-80 threaded hole, arrayed several dozen at a time. Currently I hand tap each one. Doing this operation on the mill would be, for obvious reasons, awesome.

    From what I gather a tap that small really has to be done with the reversing head. Justifying the investment isn't a slam dunk with the bean counters, though, and I need to know that it's going to be a net time and effort saver before I spend the good will with my boss by begging for it. Have you ever used it for very small holes such as a 0-80? I realize it's 'rated' for that size, but...



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    A tapping head is a HUGE time-saver on small holes. It would take under 5 seconds per hole. I started using a tapping head about a month ago, and I wish I'd bought it years ago. It's dead simple, reliable, and fast.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Member Don Clement's Avatar
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    The Procunier is the perfect reversing tapping head for tapping small holes on my Tormach. I have tapped 10s of thousands of 4-40 blind holes using the Procunier. Here is an example of tapping 2-56 blind holes on my Tormach.
    Tapping 2-56 On Tormach Video by miltons_stuff | Photobucket

    Don



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    I like the procunier, but I'm just playin' in the shop.. too spendy for me.. already got the other one.. have to sw to low range anyway according to tormach, so no big savings in time for my occasional use.



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    Member Don Clement's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnetti View Post
    have to sw to low range anyway according to tormach, so no big savings in time for my occasional use.
    low range??? I don't use low range with the Procunier on my Tormach. E.g. tapping 4-40 with the Procunier: spindle 1200 RPM, downfeed 30 ipm, no dwell, retract 60ipm.

    Don



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    Quote Originally Posted by Moggot View Post
    From what I gather a tap that small really has to be done with the reversing head. Justifying the investment isn't a slam dunk with the bean counters, though, and I need to know that it's going to be a net time and effort saver before I spend the good will with my boss by begging for it. Have you ever used it for very small holes such as a 0-80? I realize it's 'rated' for that size, but...
    I use a tapmatic tapping head with great results for #2 and #1 holes. I've never tried a 0-80, but I'm sure it could do it. You can find them used on ebay (Tapmatic 30 TC DC Reversible Tapping Attachment Free Shipping | eBay) for around 200 dollars, so it won't break the bank. What material are you tapping? This one maxes out at 2000 RPM which is a little slow for a 0-80, but I'm sure you could get away with it. The head that Tormach sells is loads better and maxes out at 3000 RPM; I would be shocked if you couldn't tap the holes you need with that.



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    Member Don Clement's Avatar
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    I also have a Tapmatic 30X. I never use the Tapmatic after getting the Procunier 1E over 10 years ago. With the cushioned double-cone clutch the Procunier is a much better reversing tapping head design for small sized taps. I never have broken a small tap due to the Procunier and I tap mostly blind holes.
    In addition the Procunier doesn’t use those dodgy rubber-flex collets that are such a PITA when changing taps. In fact I use the Procunier Pro-Quik quick change tap system http://www.rockford-ettco.com/Downloads/Pro-QuikTap.pdf to quickly change tap sizes and keep each size tap height in the Tormach tool table. BTW I converted my Procunier 1E to use the Pro-Quik system by just changing the spindle out.



    Here is a video showing how easy it is to change taps with my TTS modified Procunier: Snap-in Tap Change Video by miltons_stuff | Photobucket

    Don

    Last edited by Don Clement; 08-21-2013 at 07:34 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Clement View Post
    low range??? I don't use low range with the Procunier on my Tormach. E.g. tapping 4-40 with the Procunier: spindle 1200 RPM, downfeed 30 ipm, no dwell, retract 60ipm.

    Don
    referring to Tormach video on the subject......



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    Guess the video doesn't apply to the Procunier.

    Don



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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Clement View Post
    Guess the video doesn't apply to the Procunier.

    Don
    Due to cost and my limited needs, I got the Tormach cheapie. Should be good enough. Since I've now made a choice, the wonders of Procunier are not germane, but thanks for the feedback.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnetti View Post
    Due to cost and my limited needs, I got the Tormach cheapie. Should be good enough. Since I've now made a choice, the wonders of Procunier are not germane, but thanks for the feedback.
    You may have been the OP on this thread however Maggot asked specifically about the Procunier and its use with small taps such as 0-80. The Procunier may not be for those who only like to tinker. In the case of those ,like me, who depend on the superior characteristics of the Procunier for their business to make money, the Procunier has been very cost effective... just like my investment in the Tormach 1100 and spindle upgrade so as not to have to use the lower range.

    Don



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    I'm also looking at purchasing a tapping head. The Procunier sounds excellent, but I can't justify the price at this time.

    Of the remaining two, does anyone have pros/cons to report?

    I'm leaning toward the "ER-20 Tension/Compression Tapping Head" as it is an inch shorter and I'm already invested in ER-20 collets. I'll be tapping holes in stainless, cast iron and aluminum, relatively small (under 1/4", but probably no smaller than 1/16") and I'll need blind-tapping support, but I can get away with not tapping all the way to the bottom.

    Spinnetti - Which one is the "cheapie" that you purchased? And I'm curious to hear how it works out for you.

    Thanks!
    --Bryan



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Turner View Post
    I'm also looking at purchasing a tapping head. The Procunier sounds excellent, but I can't justify the price at this time.

    Of the remaining two, does anyone have pros/cons to report?

    I'm leaning toward the "ER-20 Tension/Compression Tapping Head" as it is an inch shorter and I'm already invested in ER-20 collets. I'll be tapping holes in stainless, cast iron and aluminum, relatively small (under 1/4", but probably no smaller than 1/16") and I'll need blind-tapping support, but I can get away with not tapping all the way to the bottom.

    Spinnetti - Which one is the "cheapie" that you purchased? And I'm curious to hear how it works out for you.

    Thanks!
    --Bryan
    I have the ER-16 T/C tapping head and it works well for thru holes and blind holes with a depth of at least 1/4". The tap will always be pulled down by an extra 0.05 to 0.1 inches before the mill reverses, so you have to take this into account to avoid breaking taps. The added depth is, however, very consistent for a given pitch and RPM so you only need to figure it out once for a given tap.

    The ER-16 has more tension in it's spring than the ER-20 which makes it better for tapping small holes. I'm not sure how much of a difference this actually makes.

    The biggest con is that your speed has to be capped at around 500 RPM for small holes. Anything above that and you run a big risk of snapping taps.



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