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Thread: Tapping heads.

  1. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moggot View Post
    From what I gather a tap that small really has to be done with the reversing head. Justifying the investment isn't a slam dunk with the bean counters, though, and I need to know that it's going to be a net time and effort saver before I spend the good will with my boss by begging for it. Have you ever used it for very small holes such as a 0-80? I realize it's 'rated' for that size, but...
    I use a tapmatic tapping head with great results for #2 and #1 holes. I've never tried a 0-80, but I'm sure it could do it. You can find them used on ebay (Tapmatic 30 TC DC Reversible Tapping Attachment Free Shipping | eBay) for around 200 dollars, so it won't break the bank. What material are you tapping? This one maxes out at 2000 RPM which is a little slow for a 0-80, but I'm sure you could get away with it. The head that Tormach sells is loads better and maxes out at 3000 RPM; I would be shocked if you couldn't tap the holes you need with that.



  2. #14
    Registered Don Clement's Avatar
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    I also have a Tapmatic 30X. I never use the Tapmatic after getting the Procunier 1E over 10 years ago. With the cushioned double-cone clutch the Procunier is a much better reversing tapping head design for small sized taps. I never have broken a small tap due to the Procunier and I tap mostly blind holes.
    In addition the Procunier doesn’t use those dodgy rubber-flex collets that are such a PITA when changing taps. In fact I use the Procunier Pro-Quik quick change tap system http://www.rockford-ettco.com/Downloads/Pro-QuikTap.pdf to quickly change tap sizes and keep each size tap height in the Tormach tool table. BTW I converted my Procunier 1E to use the Pro-Quik system by just changing the spindle out.



    Here is a video showing how easy it is to change taps with my TTS modified Procunier: Snap-in Tap Change Video by miltons_stuff | Photobucket

    Don

    Last edited by Don Clement; 08-21-2013 at 07:34 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Clement View Post
    low range??? I don't use low range with the Procunier on my Tormach. E.g. tapping 4-40 with the Procunier: spindle 1200 RPM, downfeed 30 ipm, no dwell, retract 60ipm.

    Don
    referring to Tormach video on the subject......



  4. #16
    Registered Don Clement's Avatar
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    Guess the video doesn't apply to the Procunier.

    Don



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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Clement View Post
    Guess the video doesn't apply to the Procunier.

    Don
    Due to cost and my limited needs, I got the Tormach cheapie. Should be good enough. Since I've now made a choice, the wonders of Procunier are not germane, but thanks for the feedback.



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    Registered Don Clement's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnetti View Post
    Due to cost and my limited needs, I got the Tormach cheapie. Should be good enough. Since I've now made a choice, the wonders of Procunier are not germane, but thanks for the feedback.
    You may have been the OP on this thread however Maggot asked specifically about the Procunier and its use with small taps such as 0-80. The Procunier may not be for those who only like to tinker. In the case of those ,like me, who depend on the superior characteristics of the Procunier for their business to make money, the Procunier has been very cost effective... just like my investment in the Tormach 1100 and spindle upgrade so as not to have to use the lower range.

    Don



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    I'm also looking at purchasing a tapping head. The Procunier sounds excellent, but I can't justify the price at this time.

    Of the remaining two, does anyone have pros/cons to report?

    I'm leaning toward the "ER-20 Tension/Compression Tapping Head" as it is an inch shorter and I'm already invested in ER-20 collets. I'll be tapping holes in stainless, cast iron and aluminum, relatively small (under 1/4", but probably no smaller than 1/16") and I'll need blind-tapping support, but I can get away with not tapping all the way to the bottom.

    Spinnetti - Which one is the "cheapie" that you purchased? And I'm curious to hear how it works out for you.

    Thanks!
    --Bryan



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Turner View Post
    I'm also looking at purchasing a tapping head. The Procunier sounds excellent, but I can't justify the price at this time.

    Of the remaining two, does anyone have pros/cons to report?

    I'm leaning toward the "ER-20 Tension/Compression Tapping Head" as it is an inch shorter and I'm already invested in ER-20 collets. I'll be tapping holes in stainless, cast iron and aluminum, relatively small (under 1/4", but probably no smaller than 1/16") and I'll need blind-tapping support, but I can get away with not tapping all the way to the bottom.

    Spinnetti - Which one is the "cheapie" that you purchased? And I'm curious to hear how it works out for you.

    Thanks!
    --Bryan
    I have the ER-16 T/C tapping head and it works well for thru holes and blind holes with a depth of at least 1/4". The tap will always be pulled down by an extra 0.05 to 0.1 inches before the mill reverses, so you have to take this into account to avoid breaking taps. The added depth is, however, very consistent for a given pitch and RPM so you only need to figure it out once for a given tap.

    The ER-16 has more tension in it's spring than the ER-20 which makes it better for tapping small holes. I'm not sure how much of a difference this actually makes.

    The biggest con is that your speed has to be capped at around 500 RPM for small holes. Anything above that and you run a big risk of snapping taps.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Turner View Post
    I'm also looking at purchasing a tapping head. The Procunier sounds excellent, but I can't justify the price at this time.

    Of the remaining two, does anyone have pros/cons to report?

    I'm leaning toward the "ER-20 Tension/Compression Tapping Head" as it is an inch shorter and I'm already invested in ER-20 collets. I'll be tapping holes in stainless, cast iron and aluminum, relatively small (under 1/4", but probably no smaller than 1/16") and I'll need blind-tapping support, but I can get away with not tapping all the way to the bottom.

    Spinnetti - Which one is the "cheapie" that you purchased? And I'm curious to hear how it works out for you.

    Thanks!
    --Bryan
    The major advantage of a tapping head over a tension/compression tap holder is it is very forgiving. Properly setup, it should be near impossible to break a tap, as you can limit torque, and the head can absorb up to almost 0.200" of mis-match between spindle depth and actual tap depth. In both cases, you really want to make sure your actual spindle spindle is close to commanded speed. If you don't have a spindle tach, buy one of the cheap optical ones. A tapping head is also faster, since you don't need to stop the spindle and reverse direction. You still need to be careful doing blind holes, but the clutch will save you if you accidentally hit bottom. With a tension/compression holder, hit the bottom of a blind hole and you have a broken tap, as there is no torque limiting. The tapping head is a no-brainer to program as well - feed down at RPM / pitch to required depth, then feed back up at twice that speed. A typical hole takes only 2-3 seconds.

    I've been using the cheap Chinese ($200) tapping head (bought recently from a Zoner), and could not be happier with it. The quick-change holders on the Procunier would be really nice, but it's really not a big deal to change the tap on mine. Making your own quick-change holders would not be terribly difficult either. And length is repeatable enough, the tool length can be pre-programmed.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



  10. #22
    Registered Don Clement's Avatar
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    IMO the biggest advantage of the Procunier for use with small taps is the smoothness of Procunier’s cushioned double-cone clutch. Other types of reversing tapping heads use a dog type clutch which is nowhere as smooth as Procunier cushioned double cone clutch.

    The Pro-Quik quick change tap holders are just an added advantage for me since I tap a variety of blind and thru holes in on the same part: 4-40, 10-32, -20, -28 and M6 . The quick change tap holders saves me quite a bit of time by easily and quickly changing just the tap using the same Procunier tapping head at a tool change in my program knowing that each tap height is in the tool table. Just as the Tormach’s PDB saves me time and not having the hassle of using a wrench to change tools , Procunier’s Pro-Quik system saves me time and not having the hassle of using wrenches to change a tap. Pro-Quik is Procunier's PDB.

    Don



  11. #23
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    I've tapped hundreds of blind 0-80 holes in 304SS with a Tapmatic. The Procunier is also an excellent tool. Used and maintained properly they're both great tools.



  12. #24
    Registered Don Clement's Avatar
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    I invested in a tapping head before getting into CNC. Now that I use CNC, I am wondering if thread milling might replace some of the small hole threading I’ve been doing with a tapping head. I have thread milled larger holes (and external threads) with an insert TM tool. Anybody had success with thread milling smaller holes i.e. 4-40,2-56 ?

    Don



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