4896 issues... where to start... (Long)?

[Dave's_Not_Here]

I recently added a custom 4th axis to my LC 4896 Plus (Servo) Router. I ordered the 4th Axis AMP, Servo, Cables and PCI Chip from Techno.

I disconnected all the wiring from the control box and removed the aluminum control panel. I also labeled each wire and it's location; along with drawing diagrams.

I was missing the Thermal Heat Pad from my new AMP and it was ordered and sent. I had to get the AMP mounting screws from HD, as they were also missing.


(See pages 5 and 6 in the attached PDF Install Guide from Techno)

After installing the AMP, I replaced the control panel and hooked up all the wiring. I "removed the “Axis 3” Jumper from the J24 connection on the LC Plus Motherboard and installed the Jumper I just removed, into the #1 slot on J22. I was told that I didn't need to "add the newly supplied Jumper (also missing from the components) to the #3 slot on J22" as directed in the PDF instructions; so this step was ignored.

I then added the PCI Chip to the PCI Card and "removed the JP7 Jumper from the “12” slot into the “EXT” slot. Replaced the PCI Card into the PC and closed the PC Tower."

I fired up the Techno Interface and set the necessary configurations M Scales, etc) for the newly identified A Axis. I was able to jog the A Axis, as well as X,Y and Z. All seemed well with the world.

Not so... I clicked the FILE button on the interface and loaded a file. The friggin router took off on its own and I had to hit the E-Stop button! The interface did not allow me to EDIT or PREPROCESS the file... it just took off! I could not even use the interface STOP or PAUSE buttons... I had to literally close the interface to get it to stop asking me to re-enable the controller!

I then upgraded my BUILD 400 to the latest BUILD 420Q. No Joy. In fact, the interface graphics went to heck and some of the GUI was actually missing!

I uninstalled the Techno CNC Interface. Then moved my entire Techno CNC Interface Backup Folder into the original directory. The GUI was fine but all the same problems were still there.

I completely uninstalled the Techno CNC Interface and rebooted the system. I then reinstalled the original BUILD 400 from the CD. The interface no longer recognized the A Axis but kept most of the previous configurations rather than starting over clean.

I then executed a Restore Point from a week previous to all these changes. no joy. All the problems still persist to this day.

Since this computer only has Windows XP, Aspire and the Techno CNC Interface, I am inclined to reformat the HD and reinstall all the software. If the problems persist, then something must be wrong inside the control box.

lastly... so far... when I HOME the X,Y and Z Axis, all three fault out at the end of the travel, regardless of how slow each axis moves. It even happens when I manually move each axis to it's extreme locations. It is as though the proximity switches are no longer working... and as far as the A Axis is concerned, it just spins on and on forever... as though there is no HOME setting/location. I could not find any A Axis HOME setting in the Techno CNC Interface or installation instructions covering the HOME setting. Ideas?????

I know this is a lot at once, but they are all connected, unfortunately. Any insights would be appreciated, as I have a gunsmith that was wanting to visit my shop and discuss in-letting for his custom firearms... not to mention other work that has piled up, and now I can't even cut a straight line safely!

I will be calling Techno Monday.

Thanks,

Dave

[Dave's_Not_Here]

I reinstalled XP Pro.
I reinstalled the Techno CNC Interface.
I set the parameters (M Scales, etc)
I opened a file and it did not go friggin nuts...

When I try to run the program, the Z Axis goes all the way up and faults out. I set the X and Y axis to zero prior to running the program.

I thought I might need to touch off the tool after zeroing out the X and Y axis, but it required me to do the touchpad test first. So I went to SYSTEM>ADVANCED>TOUCHPAD and tried to test the touchpad, I immediately get Touchpad test failed (0). It doesn't even let me do the test.

I have checked the connections on the controller MOBO and all is well. Not sure where to go with this now... I will not be able to run any programs if I cannot touch off the tools.

Also, the HOME limits are still an issue, as they fault out every time.

D

[Montabelli]

you're havin' some fun... check to make sure you have a good ground between the table and the power box. I have a different setup so I know nothing about the lc controller, On mine I had to move the connection point for the touch pad to the riser card on the pci400 card when I went to 4 axis. every time I've had an issue with the touch pad though it has been ground.

[Dave's_Not_Here]

Monatbelli,

My LC+ Controller Mother Board is grounded directly. All the connections are undisturbed as well. Not sure how to ground the touchpad to the PCI card, as the touchpad has its own location on the controller MOBO in the control box and the PCI card is on the computer with the Techno CNC Interface.

I wish techno would be better at calling back. Last time took 5 calls over two days to get someone on the line. Hope that is not an indication of how many owners are having issues...

I have also contacted them about HOMING the A Axis and for information regarding touching off A Axis programs, but all I got was a 4th Axis Setup PDF e-mailed to me... not one of the questions I asked was addressed in the response... nor the PDF.

Thanks,

Dave

[Montabelli]

is your machine frame grounded to your amplifier box? also do you have a second wire on your cable to the touch pad to clip to the tool? the way it works is the touch pad completes the circuit to ground, that's why its important to make sure the tool has a ground path to the electronics. if you have the pad grounded it will register as a touch.

I just realised your electronics case is part of the machine, so forget any dumb questions... check the continuity between the frame of the machine and the frame of your computer, there should be. also check if there is continuity between your touch pad and your computer, there shouldn't be or it should be very high resistance.

I presume that there was no change of places to plug in your touch pad when you added your 4th axis, on mine it was neccessary. Good luck

[Dave's_Not_Here]

Montabelli,

Every wire was labeled and diagrammed before removing, then reinstalled in the original location. The strange thing about the touchpad, is in test mode, it won't even let you try the test... it immediately errors out saying "touchoff pad test failed (0)". Without passing the test, the Techno CNC Interface will not let me touchoff any project, so I am dead in the water until this is resolved.

The touchpad has a dedicated connector the shares the same style of connection as the external E-Stop/Start/Pause Control Box. Just for giggles, I swapped the two connections (right next to each other) and the wire from the control box was moved to the touchpad connection. The spindle started right up. So I know the connection is good.

The factory touchpad is wired directly to the control board using this connection. The wire passes through the gantry e-chain and into the control box. The entire control board is grounded with its own ground.

Not sure why adding a 4th axis would cause all of these issues. Unfortunately, I am one day and two phone calls and 2 e-mails and no response from Tech Support... and I have burned a weeks+ worth of production. This is getting costly to say the least... guess you need to "feel some pain" if you want to do your own upgrades rather that spending several thousand $$$$ on a factory installed upgrade.

D

[Ed Lang]

I would back out of the upgrade by removing all added parts and reinstalling jumpers and connectors back to the original locations.

Then test the touch off plate again.

If all is OK, get production done and have another go at the upgrade when you have more time.

Wishing you success.

Ed

[Dave's_Not_Here]

I would back out of the upgrade by removing all added parts and reinstalling jumpers and connectors back to the original locations.

Then test the touch off plate again.

If all is OK, get production done and have another go at the upgrade when you have more time.

Wishing you success.

Ed

Went that route today. Spent three hours on the phone with no joy. John was a trooper and we did everything, including some YOGA moves. As a last resort, I suggested swapping servos with the A and Z Axes'.

Net result: somewhere between adding the 4th axis hardware and latest version of the control software, the Z Axis Servo was toasted. Not sure how upgrading the software would do that, but that seems to be where it stands.

The Z Axis Servo is heading back to NY. If they can repair it, I will be looking at $120-$200. If not, then it will be $700 for a new motor, encoder and brake.

Techno should have the Z by Thursday or Friday. I hope to have the bad or really bad news by then. Either way, I hope to be back in business by end of next week.

D

[Ed Lang]

Glad you are on top of the repair, sorry to hear it might cost $700.

Do let us know the final outcome when it happens.

Best,


Ed

[Pplug]

It sounds like the encoder. You can manually replace the encoder yourself. When I bought mine used, the z axis was working incorrectly. I took the servo apart and heard rattling in the encoder enclosure. Sure enough, the glass wheel was broken. A new encoder from Techno set me back $180. I don't think your glass wheel is broken in the encoder, I bet that the electronics in it are fried. There is a small circuit board mounted around the central mounting posts. I bet you could get in contact with the hengstler company ( http://www.hengstler.com/ ) and get a replacement encoder cheaper than what techno sells them for.

If you need a new motor, check out ebay. I saw the same exact motor with break from some seller in china for a ridiculously low price. It was the same motor with the same stickers and specs!

I hope I can save you some cash!

[Dave's_Not_Here]

Pplug,

If you come across that Ebay ad again. please PM me. I definitely would contact him.

Thanks for the heads up. I know the brake works, because I couldn't move the carriage until I held down the brake release button on the control box.

I would think I could also replace the small circuit board. Hard to believe that the servo itself went boogery-pitts!

Thanks for the info.

D

[Dave's_Not_Here]

... well, here I am, 2 1/2 weeks down and back to not getting any phone calls or e-mails returned.

It's been a week since my servo went back to NY. Three day service; means the servo landed in their shop last Thursday. Even with the holiday, I should have heard from someone by now...

And what really bends my crank, if their Build 420Q interface upgrade had not totally screwed up their interface, I would not be posting this thread. And do you think they will accept any culpability for the software malfunction? Not on your life...

Phone calls to their Tech Support goes to their India Voice Mail. E-mails; who knows where they go.

I have called around to several companies to change out my Techno crap for a new control setup. Only drawback, most of them sell and support AC Brushless Servo setups and will not use the DC Servos on a Techno Isel. This in turn requires them to supply the computer and control box as a tuned, matched set, along with 4 servos and drives and God knows what else.

All this while your clients you work hard to get, go elsewhere to get their work done. It puts you in a "can't win for losing" position. I curse the day I bought a MADE IN AMERICA Techno Isel.

Don't fall for the "Ball Screws" as a deal maker... Techno has a different idea what those words mean...

UPDATE: Finally received an e-mail saying the tested my Servo and "found a bad encoder." They installed a "test encoder" and it "still did not function. The only option we have now is a replacement."

All this from a software upgrade?

I have an attractive offer from another company, to swap out all the Techno stuff and install all new AC Brushless 3,000 rpm servos with 10:1 gear box and Teco Servo Drives, Mach3, and associated electronics and cables. The price is comparable to the per-axis cost of the current Techno setup. However, I want to believe that the Customer Service is better, the AC Servos and Drives are superior and I would be tossing the proprietary Techno Isel components... i.e. controller, drives/amps, cnc interface, pci card, etc.... all of which would add up to a new router if they went in the crapper...

I have the money, but would have to place other capital investments (laser scanner, vacuum table or ATC spindle upgrade) on hold. What would you do if you were in my place?

Update: I have decided to have them ship a replacement, along with my original servo. I cannot afford to be down with a retro-fit nor wait the additional 3 weeks+ to get the retro-fit components. However, I will definitely be scheduling the retro-fit for later this year, and shelving the Techno Components for use on eBay or if I ever sell the router.

D