New to me Techno router

[dart70ca]

Hey everybody. Been poring over the posts on this forum trying to get an idea of what I've got here.
Just going to post pictures as that's where I'm getting my info anyway.
I would love some manuals for this thing. Programming, maintenance, parameter reference; anythung will help.

It was running in a shop until last month when they cleared out their three smaller machines in favour of a bigger one.
The PC is a Pentium II and the card is ISA.

It has been adapted to communicate via USB stick rather than floppy and there is a kit, currently not installed, to allow for large file transfer via memory card.

I would like to use it for a while before deciding on upgrades.

Besides the manuals, I would like to know how to figure out the power supply amp and voltage ratings, a souce for the OEM limit switches as one or two are toast.
The table is 48x69 and the gantry height is 7 1/2" from table to bottom rail.

Thanks.









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[dart70ca]

A few pics of the limit switches. They're pretty much all toast and I would like to replace them. This one looks to still be functional, although, when I pulled it out to clean around it, i found that thin curved spring bit laying inside the housing. I put it back on but no idea if I git it right way 'round. My control errors out now, telling me the limits have been hit and to move off of them. No idea if these are NO or NC switches and not sure if I have to shut down the control to remove the error or simply push the gantry off the switch.

Here it is with the spring off:


And here with the spring on. It could go on with the curve the other way as well. Neither configuration got rid of the error yet so I'm thinking it's something else or a combination of things.

[dart70ca]

Best guess so far is it's this one:
http://www.techno-isel.com/ss/PDF/h835066.pdf

Techno-Isel Gantry III, Model 130 with the servo option.

Ah. There are several websites with information on these machines. All some combination of Techno and/or Isel. Looks like the best one for now is TechnoCNC.

Lube is lithium grease on the screws if operated below 1500 rpm, applied every 8-10 hours in dusty environments. Rails get light oil suitable for sliding components (way oil or slideway oil to me) applied at the same rate as the grease. Use an acid brush to apply either. Linear bearings get grease upon assembly. I guess you take them off occasionally for cleaning and re-lube? Tedious. Once a year I figure.

Limit switches look like either one or all of these three;

Far end limit - H90Z16M10107172
Home switch (old style) - HL1600M
Limit switch at far end of travel - H90Z16-SWH3L2HS

Not clear what the difference between those far end ones is. No pics. Enquiries made.

[ericscottf]

Dart,

Thanks for posting. We can definitely help.

First off, the switches are Normally closed. Secondly, you've put the tiny spring in backwards. Try reversing it and see what happens. You can even look at the contacts and see how they behave to figure it out.
You'll need both switches to be closed and wired up into the motor in order to get rid of the error.
Alternately, you can jump out the circuit to test. They're 2 normally closed switches wired up in series, so if either breaks, the system knows it's at the EOT, and stops. Normally closed is used, so that if a wire is broken, the system will stop instead of crash (ideally).

If you need them, we have both styles of that switch.
We also have a retrofit kit for those switches that uses nicer, more robust proper CNC grade switches that are mounted externally to the system, as those switches to break easily, and replacing them is annoying.

As far as upgrades, you have a few options, we can help.
You can upgrade to the PCI version of the system that came after that ISA card. This will get you into modern versions of Windows, including windows 7 thru 10 if you want. All you would need to change is the control card and the computer. The main control box, wiring, motors, etc, all stay.
You can also use our upgrade kit to make it PCI express, the even more modern version of PCI, so you can use pretty much any modern PC, maybe one you already have lying around.
You can poke about the forums here and convert to MACH3 with the existing servos, or replace with other servos or steppers for a less expensive conversion.

Lubrication is easy - use NLGI grade 2 grease on screws, and even rails, and don't worry about it much. Don't overdo it, this will build up dust in the components that you'll have to flush out if it gets out of hand.

Let me know what further info you need and we'll be happy to help.

Whatever you decide, we'd be happy to help best as we can. Check out our website at Armor CNC Systems - our contact info is in there as well.

Thanks
Eric

[dart70ca]

Thanks Eric,
Does Armor sell the limit switches and can you give me a description of the installation of the new style switches? Maybe a pic or drawing?

Does going with the PCIE card require changing out the drives?

Lastly, can you tell from the screenshot back there which version of Gcode it's using? Most of it looks too familiar to be totally proprietary, but there are some oddballs in there. So far, downloaded documentation has not helped in that regard. I believe the program-end code on the one I viewed was G62, possibly G63 or G64.

Thanks for the prompt reply,
Keith.

[ericscottf]

Yup, we have switches. Email us and I'll send you a pic of the install instructions for the retrofit.

Upgrading won't replace anything but the card and main control cable. Same control box, drives, motors, etc.

Gcode is close to generic fanuc.

Send us an email and I shall elaborate.

Regards
Eric

Thanks Eric,
Does Armor sell the limit switches and can you give me a description of the installation of the new style switches? Maybe a pic or drawing?

Does going with the PCIE card require changing out the drives?

Lastly, can you tell from the screenshot back there which version of Gcode it's using? Most of it looks too familiar to be totally proprietary, but there are some oddballs in there. So far, downloaded documentation has not helped in that regard. I believe the program-end code on the one I viewed was G62, possibly G63 or G64.

Thanks for the prompt reply,
Keith.

[dart70ca]

So, it's been a couple weeks. Got the machine moving around under power and a short program. Found sources for some replacement parts, now waiting for mail to come.
It was fairly clogged with plastic and aluminum fines which took some work to clear out.
This was in the lower couple inches of the z axis;

Control box;


The OEM limit switches are functional (2), broken (2), or missing components to make them work (2). Y and X axis home switches work, their outboard companions are broken and bypassed. The Z axis upper was disconnected so I soldered it back in to the system...only to find someone had removed the actuator rod. Anybody have a pic of one of those? Thinking it is the same as the X axis one; looks like a long taper pin modified to fit in the hole in one of the feet of the ball-nut pillar-block.

The switches themselves are available from RS Electronics or one of their affiliates in your country. They are a few bucks each, cheap. I figure they've been in there since 1995 and only two are broken (possibly repairable) so why not leave them in there for now? They are Marquardt brand, snap-action switches.



The spindle is a 2.2Kw air-cooled model. Originally had a plug on the front like this

Beware, if you buy one, the plug is not easy to find and they are often sold without the male half, rendering them useless. This is what happened to mine. The offending member was summarily amputated and replaced with...um...well...


So I wanted a new plug. Took a bit of looking but found it on Aliexpress. About $20 delivered. BTW, if you're looking, you will have better luck using 'cnc engraver' as a search term on Chinese sites rather than 'cnc router'. 'Spindle' gets you lots of mag wheels, 'cnc router' finds internet routers, 'plug' gets you interesting s*x toys, 'electric plug' = more interesting s*x toys.


Evidently, the person taking care of maintenance on this thing was a) very busy and b) the type to remove 'extra' fasteners and not replace them, so next on the list are some of the gantry-side attachment bolts (really long M5's and M6's), screws holding on the spindle fan shroud (M3/M4, long), screws holding on the front cover of the VFD (M2/M3, long), a couple threaded brass inserts in the dust covers on the gantry face (M5, no idea where to get them).
Ordered 4 meters of cable-chain, hope it's enough.

Removed almost all the slide bearings, cleaned, lubed and reinstalled. Tightness and alignment were guessed at so it could be crooked as hell now. Anybody have a guideline for that?
Diassembled the whole Z axis, removed ballnut from the screw, cleaned everything, put the balls back in the nut and put it all back together. Got the nut on backwards due to inattention, have to redo that. The hole in the side of the foot should house a long pin for hitting the upper limit switch so it should point up. Mine is gone.
The lower limit switch was packed with crap so it jammed the contact closed. Evidently, the easiest solution at the time was to bypass the whole z axis limit switch system by hacking off the upper plug and tossing it, jumping the wires out. The rectangular plugs are hard to find here, so I just ordered these off ebay. Will remove the plugs and solder them to the remianing wire on mine;

For my $2 I get that wiring plus a limit switch on a circuit board intended for a reprap 3d printer.


Would love a parts breakdown, service manual, exploded diagram, any kind of documentation, really. Downloaded what I could from Techno but most of that is operational stuff; nothing deep.
My machine is a Gantry III, model 130, 1995.

[ericscottf]

Hello again!

Hope I can help...

The Z axis switch actuator is the same as the X axis. assuming your X axis is the stock one.

Alignment of the screw is easy, just tighten the flanges for the end bearings when the slide is as close to the side you're tightening as possible - this will have the nut position the screw in the proper place.
Linear bearing preload should be just enough to take out the play, don't overdo it.

To remove a ball nut to turn it around (you shouldn't need to remove it to clean it in the future, it's unecessarily difficult), you'll have the easiest time (meaning you won't have to re pack the nut) if you have a ball nut transfer tube. It's a plain old tube with just the right OD to hold the balls in place, and the right ID to slip over the screw. You rotate the nut onto the tube and hold it there with some o-rings or a rubber band on each side, then flip it around. I'll find out the dims and get them to you.

Let me know how else we can help with your endeavor.

Regards,
Eric

[dart70ca]

Thanks Eric. Tube dimensions would be appreciated. That nut was packed with crap real bad. I've had the balls out of these before and this one was easier so no worries. The x and y were cleaner, thank god. Looks like a lot bigger job to get those off.

The alignment I was referring to was more to do with the axis slides than the screw. There are 8 bearings per slide and two slides. A documented assembly and tightening sequence that gets everthing close would be handy. On the sets in my Y axis slides, the units inside (opposite the adjustable ones) were not really touching the rails much. There was a layer of crud between the plastic liner and the rail it should have been touching. I figure the last guy in there got the sequence wrong.

The actuator rod is 4mm then, so I might have something around here that will do the job. Stock looks like ground shafting.
Got the last of the x axis bearings off, cleaned and greased today. One if them was completely gone;


There were 3 balls left in it and the outer half of the plastic housing was gone.

Looks like the design used to be serviceable but now they glue the housings?? Be a lot nicer if they still came apart. Looks like these are a good design that just die from contamination. Easily cleaned out with two-piece housings, not so easy with these as they are.

For anybody attempting it, here's what I came up with.
I removed the bearings in pairs (inner & outer in X, upper & lower in Y, etc) and blew off the outside with air. NOT the ball side and AVOID the small holes on the back. Wipe off the rest of the grime with clean rags. Corners between metal and plastic should be clean. Take note of machining marks on the metal sides. Older ones seem to have been ground on both faces while the newer ones are just ground on one. The ground face is the mounting/reference face when you reinstall.
I used a mini flat screwdriver to get the balls moving through their respective races, pushing old grease and dirt out along the way to be wiped off. If they're REAL nasty, take the balls out and flush with solvent I guess. Mine weren't bad enough for that. Going back in, it should look like there is one ball missing (a gap).

I have this pinpoint grease gun that came in handy for this.

A couple pumps applied through the rear hole;

Push the balls around some more and give it one more pump.
Run the bearing back and forth on an exposed rod to check smoothness and sound.
Reinstall and repeat for the rest. It's a big job, but you probably only need to do it once or twice a year, depending on the working environment. The bearings for the X axis are bigger and cost about $80 USD a pair I think (this from previous owner).

[dart70ca]

Need to make mounts for the drag chain I've ordered. Did these machines come with cable guide chain of any sort? Pics are hard to come by....
For the Y, I plan either to run it on top or behind the gantry. Behind is better for servicing the slides due to the cover having to come off.
X is still a mystery but probably will hash something together when I have the chain in hand. Not sure how it will attach to the gantry yet. There is room for a guide tray in the frame the machine sits on.
Z should be fairly simple.

Most pictures and videos show machines from positions where the chain is out of sight.
Anybody have any good ones of a successful install?

[mx270a]

This may give you some ideas on how to mount a cable track.

I converted my machine to steppers and in doing so lost the Z brake, so I added a 30lb gas spring to hold up the Z axis. That keeps the Z from slowly moving down when the stepper is unpowered.

[dart70ca]

Good stuff. Thanks.��
How has that gas spring lasted? Lots of cycles? That's a good vertical mount, too.
That an estop atop the z axis there??

[mx270a]

The gas spring has been fine, but the machine doesn't get that many hours. If it ever breaks, I'll just put another one on. It was a far simpler solution than rigging up the Z brake mechanism.

Yes, that is an e-stop switch on the top.

[dart70ca]

I see this old interface has readouts for spindle and coolant states. How were they hooked up originally? That AUX I/O port?

[mx270a]

I can't answer that. The electronics on my router were broken, so I scrapped it all and started over with steppers, a G540, and Mach 3.

[CNCMAN172]

Wow it is amazing this router never caught fire will all that carpet looking dust inside the power supply area.

Russ

[dart70ca]

Those were plastic chips with some aluminum mixed in. Probably pulled a full cup of it out of there. Probably another cup from inside the slideway covers. Don't know how many times I've swept and vacuumed the floor and it's STILL showing up.

[dart70ca]

Still picking away at this in my spare time. Waiting on parts in the mail mostly.
Made up some levelling feet yesterday. Old hockey pucks with a hex pocket milled in and filled with the heads of 5/8" bolts. I made a dimple in the heads and parted them off in the lathe. I have long cup point setscrews that will thread through a nut welded inside the C-channel leg of the frame my router sits on. The points will rest in the dimples made in the bolt heads.

[dart70ca]

Still waiting on parts.
Limit switches showed up this week, got my homebrew adjustable feet welded in last week. Will post a pic of the feet after paint touchup.

[dixdance]

Dart, have you got your machine up and running yet? If so, what is your impression of it?

I'm looking at a smaller version that needs a fair amount of work and parts. I'm wondering if it's worth it all rather than shelling out something ready to go, like an Axxiom or Camaster.