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  1. #1
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    Default New to me Techno router

    Hi,
    Craigslist strikes again. I recently picked up this router from someone on craigslist. Guy knew it needed a new controller and I figured I knew enough to get it up and running. I hope with a little help from the forum here.
    From the research I have done so far I think it is a gantry 3 model with Iselautomation steppers. Are these steppers? Took the jog wheel off and tried to see insode and the wires for the quick connect plug are too short to slide the cover back. Before I disassemble any more I figured I would post a few photos and someone would know just from looking. Circa 1995 model machine with a table dimension of 49X72. Thinking I will have a usable space of 48x maybe 60?
    Label on the back table plate says HX33SBM201216005. I have figured out that the 16005 on it is for the actual part on the table. So I am assuming the HX33SBM2012 would be the important part to help determine other machine attributes. 4th number tells ballscrew pitch?
    I have read thru a few post on the retro process and I think I will be heading in the Gecko g540 route. Am I correct in assuming that the G540 is a step/direction and bob combined? Found a great wiring diagram while searching around as well. I think I will need to install homing switches as well as I dont see any installed. The gantry travel looks to have a place to install it but not sure on the Y and Z. Are these internal and not easily seen? Do the limit switches get installed in series with the stepper wiring or wired into the G540 directly? Does the G540 know that it has hit a limit or is that software controlled?

    I have tons of other questions but I will try to space them out to make sure I don't get confused.
    Thanks for any information you guys can provide. Did I do ok for $340?
    Chris

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    Default Power supply

    I should have also mentioned I have a MAC200SD box as well. Looks to have a power supply in it that might be able to be repurposed if it still works.
    Chris



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    Is it rack and pinion, or leadscrew?
    Can't tell from the pics what type of motors they are.
    What type of linear bearings does it have?

    The G540 generally works best with smaller motors, and may not be suitable for what you have??

    Regardless, it's hard to go wrong for $340.

    Gerry

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    Took a peek inside and it seems to read to be a 2 phase stepper. Ballscrew down the middle, kind of dirty but looks to be able to be cleaned.
    Plugged in the power supply box and connected each axis one at a time and they seemed to hum slightly and the jog wheel was firm and not easy to turn.
    The linear guides are rounded on the outside and about 1 3/8 wide. Not to skilled in the linear guide world.
    Any idea if these motors would directly hook up to the G540? I guess I would need to get the step angle?
    Chris



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    Any idea how to unpin the cannon plug? If I can get it disassembled, I can read the motor information completely.
    Chris



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    Does it unscrew, like a compression fitting?

    What you need to look at are voltage and current ratings, and inductance if you can find it.

    If you can't turn them when powered up, then the drives would appear to be working.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Ok, there was enough slck in the wires behind the plug to uncoil them. 1.8 deg step 2.8 volt uni 2.8 amp then bi 4.0 amp motor part number is a 473030 and under that it has ecm268-e2.8b-1

    Assuming 4 amp in bipolar mode? It was made in Japan, does the 268 sound like the oz/in?



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    Default small pcb under coupling

    I meant to also mention that there is a small board under the transfer fitting between the stepper and ballscrew. Position feedback?
    Chris



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    i dont know how old this stuff, but that motor on the end of table looking very much original isel motor...

    if techno isel cant help you, (i think they can) then send picture to the german isel.. they have all info you need..


    i think if you clean througly well, it will work like a new...

    you also can try kelinginc... he has some new stuff.. stepper w encoder..
    price is between servo and stepper..


    edit
    http://www.techno-isel.com/tic/catdas/ZaxisSlide.htm

    it is a slide assy, but it shows plug didnt changed..


    im not sure about the spindle, but that also looking like original isel.. 600 w and as i remember variable speed...

    Last edited by victorofga; 11-23-2012 at 05:00 PM.


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    Default Found the home switches

    The small board under the coupling looks to be a home switch. Small metal rod upsets a rocker switch. Duh, I have a lot to learn. It will be interesting wiring that to the G540 as it doesnt seem to accept switch input thru the db9 connector, only phase outputs, if I am reading the manual correctly.



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    Looks like a German motor. See here: http://www.ec-motion.com/fileadmin/ecm/pdf/kat_26.pdf

    does the 268 sound like the oz/in?
    2 = 2 phase
    6= 56mmx56mm mounting holes
    8 = 8cm length

    Looks like about 250oz-in.

    A G540 kit with 380oz motors should run it much better than stock.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default googled the motor part number

    http://www.isel-data.de/manuals/DATE...-160W_engl.pdf

    Looks even lighter than 250. 1.1Nm, maybe 145oz in.?

    Ok, so I think I have most of the electrical things straight in my head. How to I wire in the home switches? I notice I will have to break the switch wiring out of the db9 connectors just before the G540. Do the inputs to the home switches go into the input 1-4? And where is the G540 told what these inputs are? Would I be better suited to go with a different BOB with opto inputs and gain the advantage of vfd spindle control when I upgrade the spindle? I see the future of a much better spindle once I get this up and running.
    I do like the simplicity of the G540 but will it do all of the normal things? I am sure the home switches are a simple thing and want to wrap my head around it all before spending money.
    Thanks for all the help so far.
    Chris



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    I have retro-fitted a few of these machines, and as ger21 mentioned, the g540 with 380’s will be more then good,

    once you remove the aluminum motor covers, you can bolt a nema23 directly to the frame,


    I normally will strip clean all the techno wiring, motors, switches and replace with standard wiring and mechanical limit switches , which makes it really straight forward,


    You will find the ball screws will be a metric pitch.

    Rockcliff Machine Inc.
    [URL="http://www.rockcliffmachine.com"]http://www.rockcliffmachine.com[/URL]


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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsamples View Post
    Ok, so I think I have most of the electrical things straight in my head. How to I wire in the home switches? I notice I will have to break the switch wiring out of the db9 connectors just before the G540. Do the inputs to the home switches go into the input 1-4? And where is the G540 told what these inputs are? Would I be better suited to go with a different BOB with opto inputs and gain the advantage of vfd spindle control when I upgrade the spindle? I see the future of a much better spindle once I get this up and running.

    Chris
    The DB9 connectors on the G540 are for the motor wires ONLY.
    Yes, the switches are wired using inputs pins 1-4. You only get these 4 inputs, plus an Estop input, so a lot of users wire their switches to one or two switches to free up two inputs for other uses, like a touch probe.

    You tell the control software where the switches are wired. The G540 has no control over the switches, and doesn't care what you have wired to it's inputs.

    The G540 also has a 0-10V VFD control built into it.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Newer computer

    Can anyone point me in the direction of electronics if I want to use a usb set up? I have an older computer but just in case I want to run my design software and mach on the same computer I might want a little faster processor speed. I have heard Smoothstepper tossed around lots over in the benchtop forum, is this my best option? Looking at the smoothstepper, it doesn't look like an all in one solution. The 3 axis cnc usb card looks more like a plug and play card. USB in and stepper driver information out. Am I correct on thinking that the smooth stepper is just a card to convert USB to parallel port?
    I think my next step is to sort thru my computer parts and see what I can cobble together.

    I am sure one of the Keling boards will do the trick, but which one are you guys have good luck with? It would also give me a few more options on limit switches, homing, etc down the road.

    I am pretty sure I should use a desktop style box? I like the stability of win 7 and I am pretty well versed in XP Pro. Solid state drives seem like they would be a good idea but I think the bottleneck would be the machine.

    Thanks for helping me along the way, Chris.



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    Default smoothstepper

    the smooth stepper is not just a replacement for the printer port, it takes over the timing and complete responsibility for the pulse train from mach3. it sends the step and direction pulse train from the commands sent from the computer, and removes the susceptibility of the printer port to interrupts in faster outputs.

    it worked well while i used it. I am sure there are other very good systems, it's just the one I chose.



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    The 3 axis cnc usb card looks more like a plug and play card. USB in and stepper driver information out. Am I correct on thinking that the smooth stepper is just a card to convert USB to parallel port?
    Not sure which board your comparing the Smoothstepper to, but most likely they offer similar functionality. The Ethernet version of the Smoothstepper offers the equivalent of 3 parallel port, which gives you more available pins for inputs and outputs.

    If you want to run your design software while Mach3 is running, then consider a motion device like the Smoothstepper mandatory. There are probably close to 20 similar devices available, but the Smoothstepper is the most popular.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Things are getting clearer

    Montabelli,
    Thanks for the explination on the smoothstepper. I did miss the fact that it drips out the code to make sure it all gets to the machine. So if I use it I would usb from the computer into the Smoothstepper, parallel over to a BOB, and into the stepper drivers. If I dedicate the machine to running code with no design software running will Mach need something to space out the code? I want this machine to be able to do some of the finer carving I am seeing on some of the post. I don't really want to cheap out if it is important for motion to be all it can be.

    Ger21,
    I will probably run all of my design software on my desktop, far away from the fray. I am sure the noise alone would have drove me away rapidly once the "ohh, ahh" wore off.
    Is there any other benefit to the G540 besides being a one stop shop? Want to make sure I don't miss anything important like the smoothstepper function.
    Most of the newer motherboards I am checking on have LPT1 still available so that eliminates not having a port on a new motherboard.

    Unless I am missing something, I am looking at 3 KL4030's, 3 nema 23 381oz, Ethernet smoothstepper, and a c10 BOB. My original plan was to build a cnc benchtop mill first but this deal landed in my lap.
    With this setup could I place the computer in a position to unhook from one BOB roll the computer over to a mill and connect into a bob for the mill? I am hoping that Mach3 has machine presets to swap over to another machine. It would make life easier as to only have one computer dedicated to driving both machines, of course one at a time. Each machine having a bob, drivers, power supply, and a parallel out to plug the computer into.

    Does this sound feasible? Any pitfalls I might be missing?

    Chris



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    Ger21,
    Can the Ethernet Smoothstepper port out two parallel ports? Might make my idea easier to Murphy proof.

    Chris



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    Is there any other benefit to the G540 besides being a one stop shop?
    Yes, quite a few.
    1) 50V vs 40V = 20% higher speeds, as speed is proportional to voltage
    2) 3.5amps vs 3 amps - Allows you to use larger, or lower inductance motors
    3) The G540 has mid band resonance compensation, for smoother running and no resonance problems.
    4) The G540 "morphs" from micro stepping to full steps at higher rpm's, giving you more power at higher speeds.
    5) The G540 has a built in VFD control

    Can the Ethernet Smoothstepper port out two parallel ports?
    If you mean can you connect to parallel port cables to it, than yes.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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