New to me Techno router

[cjsamples]

Thanks for the heads up on the VFD control. Didn't notice the C10 did not have that. I see the benefits of using the G540 as you listed.
Still trying to wrap my head around having a few more inputs. I am assuming that to have hardware limits on the 3 axis I would need 6 inputs, from either prox or switches to tell the program where the actual end of travel is. I would also need to wire in a home place for it as well, needing 3 more inputs. Watching a tutorial on on of the cnc websites showed me how to set mach up to know what each input was from, weather it be high or low, and - or + on direction.
Limits and home switches need their own inputs right? Just so Mach doesn't bundle everything together. In my head, I don't see a way to wire up X-Y-Z home position without it being wired independent of each other. The G540 only having 4 inputs seems to lessen my availability of inputs to wire up hard limit switches and home positions. Am I explaining this right?
That was my reason for asking about 2 parallel ports in my previous post. I was thinking I could us LPT1 as the g540 connection and LPT2 for my limit, home, and anything else board to cover my bases.

Do most of you use a smoothstepper? I understand the benefit for the control of timing it provides.

If I decide to use a smoothstepper is there a better option than running a G540 along with a second BOB?

Maybe I am thinking too hard, am I correct in my limit, home, thought process? Each one needing its own inputs?

My list of buy items has seemed to expand a bit.
G540 Keling kit = $475
Smoothstepper = $155
BOB for limits = less than $30

If I want to use the Smoothstepper on both the router and a mill, I would need 2 Parallel cable out of the computer/smoothstepper work station to connect to the G540 and the limit/home BOB.

Where I have I messed up on my ideas? And thank you for answering a nubies endless questions.
Chris

[ger21]

I don't use a G540 or a Smoothstepper (I use the parallel port).

All the limit switches can be wired to one pin, and so can all the homes.
You can actually wire everything to one pin, if you only home one axis at a time. The exception is if you need to home a slaved axis, where each side needs it's own pin.

If it were me, I'd get a cheap breakout board and use it for additional inputs like you're thinking.

If you want to use two machines, then they each should have their own electronics (including their own Smoothsteppers), unless you want to be constantly swapping wires around.

[cjsamples]

Just so I know a little more about the machine, how does this machine perform? Is it rigid enough? Aluminum an option or is it strickly wood? I figure later it will get a better spindle with VFD. Any quirks or upgrades on the hardware need to be made to get this baby to perform?
Since it will be a little bit before I will have it running.
Chris

I will ponder on the electronics just a bit more.

[rockcliff]

The very first one we retro-fitted, which must be at least 8+ years ago, we used a xylotex with 425oz, motors, the customer still uses it on a daily basis, for wood ,plastics, and very lite cuts in alum. no issues,

With any single motor center driven gantry machine, it will have some limitations with gantry walking, but the machine is built rigid enough to over come it for most general types of cnc routing.

You really need to check the screws and guides before using it, most people only use a small portion of the table, so dirt build up / rust on the unused part of the screw and guides can be really bad, take some time to check and clean the entire lengths, before driving them into the nuts and bearings.

Some parts should still be available from techno, but they do obsolete stuff quite often, so if you need something mechanical for it, buy it while you still can.

[Joff]

I also just bought an old Isel gantry with the same stepper motors as this one, but I havent decided yet if I should buy a new driver+stepper kit or just go with the old motors on a modern driver.

I have been looking into getting one of these kits Value CNC Kit 3Axis Stepper Driver Board + Nema23 1.86Nm Motor + 24V15A PSU + CD | eBay

When checking the machine I also noticed that the motor on the Z-axis is a bit stronger (1.3NM) and is equipped with a brake.

[cjsamples]

From all of my reading here that is not the best kit you can find. The TB6560 board has had tons of issues, i.e. junk. 24 volts will make it slow as most people say 48 volts is where you want to be. The steppers that kit has are weaker than the one origianlly installed. 76 oz in is way to weak for much of anything, maybe a reprap? The original motors on mine are 145 oz in.

Much better suited kits on ebay for about the same money. I will be buying my electronics from Keling as he has a good reputation and stands behind his products.

Chris

[cjsamples]

Ok,
Here is the shopping cart so far.
C11 BOB - Get the benefit for vfd/spindle control later
3X nema 23 381 oz/in 3.5 amp
3X KL-6050 Drivers
1X 48V 7.3 amp power supply
Using Geckos recommend of total amp X .6 = 6.3 Hoss also ran 5 amp steppers with this power supply and they were well below the max amp for this power supply.

I know I need wire and connectors, any suggestions?

Chris

[cjsamples]

Got everything wired up and moving nicely. Afraid to cut anything as I need to get up to speed on g-code, cad, and cam. Thank goodness for the wizards. I was able to draw some circles and not completely trash a sharpie.

New Keling stepper on the y. I call it the Y. Might have to change something around, but I figure if I am standing in front of the machine the gantry will be moving left and right of me, standing on the long side of the router table. Using the exsisting steppers to get the bugs out.

Cleaned all of the ballscrews. Well the only one that actually needed much of anything was the long one down the center of the table. It had some sticky residue on it and I spiffed it up and put a light oil on it. 150 on the rapids with the stock weak little motors.

Here are some photos of the retro along with a short video. Thanks for all of the help and answers to some of my odd ball questions.

Chris

[Pplug]

The best kit for this type of machine with the fine pitched ball screws is the Geko g540 kit with the 7 amp power supply and the 381oz/in nema 23 motors. It will have the speed nessesary to drive the axis fast and very powerful. The g540 is designed by an American company with the best support in the business. It will outrun many controllers.

I have bought a few of these kits and they are amazing. I've also used other drivers and there is a huge difference.

[cjsamples]

Working on a wall mount computer cabinet. This thing makes it easy.....once you get use to the software. One more shelf to cut out and the front panels for the monitor and computer box. I think I have enough plexi for the panel for the monitor left. Having fun carving out a sign and face.

What kind of rapids should I be able to get with the 381's?

Thanks, Chris

[rakker]

cj chris- saw your videos- looks like you hooked up a stop to a metal plate. Seems like a nice positioning tool to have. Also router appeared to move pretty well- Are you using new steppers 381 oz or did you just re use the ones that came with the techno? I also have a 48 x 48 gantry that I want to upgrade, and want a good unit- BTW why did you pick the 6050 drives over other ones? It would be nice if you could post some follow up stuff. Thanks

[Pplug]

Don't buy the 6050 drives or any other cheap solution. You will regret it. Ive used several drives from several manufacturers, the Gecko G540 is the BEST. You will be blown away by the performance. Don't skimp on this important piece.

[cjsamples]

Rakker,
I have been using it with only the Y converted to the 381 motor. I had some issues swapping out the connector that Techno had used. Mainly how to get the pins to release so I could swap it out. I will be converting the other motors out as I now have the plugs needed so I don't have to canabilize the existing motors. I want to use them for a future project.
The router is doing some really nice work. I will take some photos in a little while and show a few more projects. Once all of the motors are swapped out I will have a little more speed and torque.
Last night my Kress router crapped out right in the middle of a part and that 381 motor just kept pushing. It did not stall out eventually moving my plywood before I could get to the e-stop. I was surprised of the amount of power that little motor had. 30X48 3/4 sandeply with 4 hold down clamps.
I ended up going with the 6050 drivers as I was unsure about the home/limit switch wiring and knew I wanted to use a seperate BOB. I think that either path will get you going and the Gecko has plenty of die hard fans. A good product that I might swap over too when I do a mill. It was strickly a personal choice and there are many pros and cons either way. I now know there are plenty of other options to add items to the Gecko. I guess my thinking was if something crapped out, I would only have to replace one item at a cheaper cost than buying the big ticket item again.
Early in the game someone had mentioned that the Gecko would produce better arcs, circles, and other odd shapes. The 6050's don't have a problem and make nice parts that fit really tightly together.

If wiring your system up seems like a nightmare to you, by all means go with the Gecko. Simple and quick to get it up and running. Like I mentioned when I do a mill it will probably have a gecko brain.

Over on RockCliff's place I saw a really neat idea about using your router for 3D printing and I really think that is next on my list. I am fascinated with the idea and can be up and running with a much smaller investment. Even tho it ties up my router during printing, I am still a hobbist and have plenty of time. Once the machine has some time on it and I work out the bugs, I can let it run the 3d printing and not be worried it was routing thru my table unattended.

I just swapped out my router to the PC 690 last night and I am having some issues with my auto zero. Hopefully the Gremlins have left the building when I get back out there and it will once again work correctly. I still need to set up a proper spoilboard and just got my cutter in today. 2 inch Magnate surfacing bit. I think I need to check my existing table as the other night trying to do some engraving, it just didn't look right. Probably operator error or not a square piece to begin with.

Start a build thread yet?

Chris

[cjsamples]

Here is two of the latest projects. My co-worker wanted something for his wife. We decided to make a coffee coaster for her. It is up to him to finish the stain and sealing. 4 inch plexiglas center with her name and I had originally cut the wood center with a 1.99 radius figuring it might give it a tighter fit. Yeah, it couldn't squeeze in. Remapped for a 2.0 radius and it slips in real tight. Didn't remove the plastic backing so he won't scratch it up before finishing it.

Second project was for my wife. She recently had her Explorer totalled and we picked up a Suburban, Kids aren't getting any smaller. She said she wasn't use to having so much room in the back and her solution to shopping was to buy more stuff to fill the area. I said nay nay. Organizes her milk gallons and breaks the area up into a much more usable area. She wanted it light and easy to remove, so I fancied it up a little for her. My father-in-law is responsible for stain and sealer.

I can do a tons of things, build, wire, weld, home renovations, you name it but I detest painting and staining. Just not my cup of tea. Father-in-law cracks a beer and works on it like an old craftsman. Win-win for me.

Chris

[3DRanchOwner]

Chris,

I need your help. I just recently purchased a similar Techno machine on Craigs List. Mine is a HL325SBM that has a 4' x 5' bed. Now here is my question -- after all that you have done to your machine and the learning curve that you have experienced -- what is your recommendation for me regarding upgrading the drives, motors, computer et. al.? My machine has all of the original equipment when it was originally purchased. To tell you the truth - it looks identical to the pictures that you have posted. Thanks

[victorofga]

if you can afford buy hybrid drive...
about 200 per axis, plus powersupply plus a breakout board..

a 3 axis possible well under 1000 ...

be careful with compact drives, because if you have to add a 4th axis, or adding a larger motor you might have to replace the all setup..

they are limited on amp of axises..

for a 4 feet wide machine you might want nema34 motors,..

DSP Closed Loop Step Motor Drive Kit 20 70VAC 30 100VDC 2PH 6A 3nm Nema34 86mm | eBay

you also can check keeling inc, or AKA automationtechnologies inc

[3DRanchOwner]

Victor,

Thanks for the advise - I really appreciate it.
Question: Have you actually retrofitted a machine like I have (Techno-Isel HL32SBM)? I'm totally new to CNC and I want to make sure that all of the motors will fit the bolt hole pattern without modification of any sort. And I'm also not sure about the mechanical connection between the stepper motor and the ball screws.

I read the following post from "Pplug" and he stated: "The best kit for this type of machine with the fine pitched ball screws is the Geko g540 kit with the 7 amp power supply and the 381oz/in nema 23 motors. It will have the speed necessary to drive the axis fast and very powerful. The g540 is designed by an American company with the best support in the business. It will outrun many controllers".

What do you think of Pplug's recommendation?

[victorofga]

that is up to you.. I just tried to pointing out something..

retrofitting, practically you put on standard motors.. there are no speciality.. nema 23 or nema 34.. even with adapter you can put on nema 23 place a 34 motor..

you can buy readybuilt control, that is the easiest way..
unbolt old motors, or hook on old motors the new control..

what I know, the techno used good quality ballscrews..
most of them only 5mm lead.. so you need some speed on..

my concern is not about the G540 or tb65000 would be bad..
generally if you go with separated drives, youll get better on long run..

the mechanic is great of the isel stuff..

the older dos control .... obsoleted.. this mechanic can take a servo, what is at least 2-3 times faster than steppers.. it means with stepper you might ending up somewhere 150 ipm and servo makes 450 ipm ... and that's already a difference..



http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...ver-controller

you can buy it for a great price..

if you take some time to study it you can build your own control..

what I am sure right now, as you start to work, you want to make more than you planning right now.. that is what happen with everyone..

[victorofga]

with this mechanical parts, you can plan long way.. so it worth to invest some little more on beginning..

actually I never seen techo router..
however in 1995 we built a router of isel elemnts in Europe..
since tech used same, so I think im not far from guessing you have

[Pplug]

The nice thing about the g540 is that it is 4 axis and you could take the drive apart and replace individual driver boards. You would get more speed with servo motors, encoders and drives but the cost does go up. I did see the post with the encodered steppers and drives. It sounds cool but why not go with a strait servo option at that point and get full torque despite the speed? (Steppers loose their torque as the rpms go up.)