Newbie- Want to become a CNC machinist

[saquiwej]

Hello to everybody. I am 42, the credit crunch is forcing me to try something totally new. I am a programmer hobbyist (PC programming, not CNC), but there is such a hustle about computer programming and a lot of snobbery as well, that I decided to try something closer to production, but still having to do with computers. CNC programming sounds exciting to me. I have only a rather dim idea about what it exactly is. I am considering to take a course in CNC, but I hesitate to pay out a thousand pounds before I find out what exactly I can expect as a CNC programmer/setter. It is a workshop based job, that much is clear. I will have to wash my hands after the working hours and will not wear a white shirt during, that's alright for me. In most ads they are looking for blokes. Does it mean that the job is physically demanding? Any information is welcome.

[Med-Pac]

Here's a thought for ya,

Get a job in one of those shops as a base level "helper". If you're smart enough to teach, you should be able to pick up alot of the info that you're in search of. Plus, you'll get paid to work and learn, instead of paying to learn and then finding a job.

Normally; if you're up front with an employer about this kind of thing, they are more than willing to take you on. Maybe for a little less pay than an experienced guy, but the positive for the employer is that they get to train you their way, on their machines. Eventually, you'll work up the ladder.

Hope that helps ya,

Mike

[saquiwej]

Thanks for the advice, Mike. Anyway, I would prefer to complete a course as first thing. Here in England folks are a bit more old fashioned than in the States. No employer would ever let me close to a CNC lathe without a relevant qualification. I am an autodidact by nature, I know you can learn a lot of things on your own, but in this country a certificate is a must; you can’t get a job even as a letter-carrier without having undergone a vocational training first.

So you don’t think it is possible to start as a programmer straight away? By the way, what is the difference between a programmer and a setter? Is there a big difference between the different types of machines? If I learn Fanuc, for example, will it take a lot of effort to start working on a Mazak, or Haas machine?

[pilsburyagain]

No employer, their right mind is going to let you program straight away. Purely for Health & safety.
I have been training people on CNC mills for several years and would not accept an apprentice with no engineering experiance. At least 6 months of operating cnc machinery and then setting and basic programming and finally heavy duty programming.

The other route into programming, probably better for you, is to learn cad (Autocad etc. ) then progress to a CAM program (DElcam, Bobcad etc.).

It is important to remember that, you may think CNC looks simple, but if you haven't any CNC or engineering experiance, you won't know what the machinary is capable of.

A setter, sets the tooling, jobs and offsets, basically gets the job running, loads up programs, runs the machine and on occasion makes minor corrections.

A programmer either uses CAD and Cam to produce a program or writes the program on a PC or at the machine. They also workout the job method.

FANUC, Heidenheim and MAZAK are all types of language.

FANUC is, I believe the easiest to use and probably the most used. HAAS uses it's own language which is based to the FANUC system, this is the same for many other machine makes. So learn FANUC and you will have a grounding in many other machines.

Hope this has helped

[saquiwej]

Thanks pilsburyagain, for the exhaustive answer. I am/was (?) about to undertake a course in CNC programming. The choice is anything but too ample in distant learning CNC courses. It seems to me that in Britain, in spite of the high demand and good earning prospects, this branch is not too popular. It might be that it is included into some university programmes for mechanical engineers rather than taught as a separate course. As to the two different approaches to learning CNC suggested by you, initially I would have chosen the simpler one, that is to learn CNC only without getting involved into the CAD-CAM thing, simply because I thought it was the most straightforward and the shortest way to get a job as a CNC programmer. Learning CAD-CAM is for sure more complex and time consuming. As much as I understand CAD-CAM is a way to generate the code that runs the manufacturing machines (CNC code) directly from the technical drawings of a piece of work. In this way the CNC programmer is made redundant after all, or his role is reduced to a minimum. This raises the question if it is a good investment of one’s time and money to start learning CNC programming. Do you think this profession has got a future? Is it not in danger of being phased out by the continuously improving CAD-CAM technology?

[the mill kid]

I don't think I have ever met a programmer who hasn't first started out as a machinist. Machining knowledge is a huge plus when it comes to understanding tooling and processes. Sure you could learn any cam software out there but if you don't understand how the operator is setting up his machine you can run into many problems, typically crashes! The programmer is responsible for dictating how the part should be made to hold the tolerances on the print, all the tooling, and any fixturing that could be needed. I started out 15 yrs ago with absolutely no experience and started running and programming a conversational control. I am now the lead programmer using cam software and programming many different machines. There will always be a need for operaters and programmers as long as all the manufacturing doesn't go offshore. I wish you the best of luck.

[jbt411]

Seems like a good thread to post this question. I'm looking for good certifications i can take without class room hours.

I'm current a software developer mainly dealing with the .net platform. Current hold a senior level...but i'm so tired of doing it. I have a good understanding CNC technologies, Gcode, CAM, and CAD but can't seem to find some one to hire me.

I have been doing software development for 8 years now. Was hoping to find a shop that could us my current skill set in trade off for hands on CNC experience.

What certifications, if any, can I complete to prove my knowledge that are also well known in the industry?

Thanks for any help and advice!

[beege]

You are NEVER going to be a good CNC programmer without the experience of a manual machinist. They know what speeds, what tools, inserts, and how fast to feed them and in which direction to get the optimum results. You need to bump elbows with a mentor, picking up tricks, and general know-how in the process. Then, see how CNC programmers have tweaked those things to make for a more efficient process. The G-code language is easy enough to understand, and you can learn that anytime along the way. The application of the language depends on what you will KNOW that works.

[jbt411]

Thanks for the reply.
I would love working with manual machines just as much as CNC ones. The trick is finding someone who will hire you with no hands on experience, not even much experience with a manual machines. Plus, I can't afford to be paid 8$hr, 15hr minimum and that would require major life style changes.
I'll continue looking for a company that would allow or has an apprentice program.

In the meantime I was wondering about any certifications that may give me more leverage in gaining entry level employment.
In the computer/technology industry there are professional certifications you can just pay and take. Most of them are sponsored/written by hardware or software manufactures and are respected. A few of them are generic but they normally aren’t the best ones. Not well respected but somewhat acceptable for proving basic knowledge.

Did some googling and found a few non-profit organizations that offer certifications and other certifications that are manufacture or machine specific. I would like to find certifications that would be acceptable to prove knowledge in: geometry, dimensions and quality assurance, tool types and materials, CAD/CAM. Of course any acceptable certifications dealing with manual tool operations would be great as well. Suggestions on good manufacture or machine specific certifications would also be great.

Not even sure if certifications like this are widely accepted in the industry. I'm trying to avoid spending time in a class room and paying for a class while still showing I have a good understanding of machining.

added banana just to watch it dance <- he does dance!

[littlebrewman]

Toolingu.com is a great way to get your basics and costs very little to do.I think its around 700 u.s. dollars a year and is online based with tests it is a great place to start.The othe is Kennametal Knowledge center with their Certified Metalcutting Proffesional program.The other would be a course from sandvik coromant to get your feet wet.I hope this helps to get you started.I have done all of these to move my career along. I wish i would have found them before i did my apprenticeship program.

[jbt411]

Awesome!, those links did help, especially the toolingu. Think you can count me in for the classes that will prepare you for the NIMS certification. The National Institute for Metalworking Skills (NIMS) certification. That certifications seems like the most recognized and taken test by machinists. (correct me if I'm wrong, still a newb but that seems right)

NIMS certification class list by toolingu
Price list for toolingu
Are you able to keep the class material after your subscription is over?

After deciding on the NIMS cert I have spent the rest of the time looking for study resources. Toolingu seems to be the best, cheapest I have look at so far, thanks for that. Unfortunately I couldn’t find any books that are specifically created for that certification. Does anybody know of one? Think NIMS offers a study guide…but for a full copy it’s like 1,000$...pffft

I’m surprised there isn’t a whole thread specifically for the NIMS, other certifications and study guides. Think I’ll create one and spend some time posting the link among threads that minchin the NIMS. Here is the thread

[littlebrewman]

Tooling U is a great option to get a start. They let you keep the files via PDF format which you can save to your flash drive and print out later into a binder. I turned mine into binders so i would have a paper copy for quick viewing. I would also check out Sandvik/Coromants online course as well. If yo complete it within 6 months the course is free and they send you a text book. All that is online is the tests. If just getting started, after you have done the book work to get an understanding of machining I would find someone that will let you use some manual machines to get a feel for what it is to be a machinist. With being a Machinist comes some book knowledge and some practical hands on. Be sure to buy good micrometers and calipers. I would suggest Browne and Sharpe.Also learn to use vernier style micrometers and dial calipers before doing the Digital kind.There is nothing more aggravating than seeing someone that doesn't know how to read vernier graduated tools. I would also suggest getting a Machinerys handbook as well, to most of us in the metal working world it is like our version of the Bible. Get the print version. Good Luck! Let me know if you have anymore questions.