How important is Hand Drafting?

[tcturner]

I'm in my seventh year as a high school drafting instructor, after being a drafter for 25 years. When I took the class we lettered for 2 weeks, 2-1/2 hours a day. I don't know of a single kid today what would or could sit and do that now. The first year I taught we did manual drafting for maybe 2 months. But now, none at all. I'lve come to realized the good ones are going to 'get it', and the others won't, manual or CAD. I'm still trying to decide if I'm training drafters, or CAD techs. And since this is a CNC forum, wouldn't creating a manual drawing just add a step between idea and product?

[ger21]

I'm still trying to decide if I'm training drafters, or CAD techs.

They should be the same thing. CAD is just a tool a draftsman uses. There are plenty of people who think if they know how to use a CAD program, they're draftsmen. These people far outnumber real draftsmen.

[simple1212]

it's been wonderful spending here.. good .. keep it up...

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[jimbo7]

Whether you are teaching manual drafting or electronic drafting (CAD), the most important thing to teach is how to make a drawing. Knowing a CAD program does not mean you can make a usable drawing. You must understand Drawing layout, line types and their use, line weights and their use, drawing scales, views, sections, etc. One semester of basic drafting with hand tools should be required before any CAD program is attempted. I say this because I have gotten too many who claim CAD credits and who really cannot draw. Then I have to terminate them. Not fun thing to do.

[cncjunky]

Whether you are teaching manual drafting or electronic drafting (CAD), the most important thing to teach is how to make a drawing. Knowing a CAD program does not mean you can make a usable drawing. You must understand Drawing layout, line types and their use, line weights and their use, drawing scales, views, sections, etc. One semester of basic drafting with hand tools should be required before any CAD program is attempted. I say this because I have gotten too many who claim CAD credits and who really cannot draw. Then I have to terminate them. Not fun thing to do.

Agree, for me I was taught the drawing from my Dad and then I got into the cad/cam. I enjoy cad and all the features and complexity that you can apply to it. I have not much need for hand drafting except when I'm out on a job and I have to make a blue print of a part or whatever that I need to match up. It's mainly just a ruff idea with demensions. It is important though in my opinion to be able to do both, especially if you are having to go out on a job and make drawings of what you have to work with or are in a field that doesn't only require the likes of cnc machining. Such as a sheetmetal job or piping job your not going to most likely be using cad, atleast I don't. I make my drawing and take it to the shop and get to work. Knowing how to do the same thing diferent ways is always a good thing in my book.

[bigz1]

How important is it to your student's skill level to have hand drafting taught before they ever touch a computer? I plan to cover almost the first entire quarter using hand drafting skills exclusively before i move to a computer...

If you are not a teacher, does having hand drafting skills make a difference in your shop? why? Does it make you more valuable as an employee?

I moved the poll HERE. i need to delete this poll. please go vote over there, but feel free to add opinions here, too.

I was taught drafting during the late 80's. I use a variety of Cad packages including AutoCad(I remmember my teacher had an early version in the 80's that we couldn't touch) and Solidworks. I still have an A4 drawing board but its rarely used.

Unless your making a beautifully rendered pen and ink perspective drawing I see no need to use the pen and paper comercially.

However the drawn geometry used in drafting is still useful when using CAD and gives me an advantage over the younger user. Although a lot of it is now automated snap to tangent, 2 point arcs etc. I still find uses for true lengths in 2D AutoCAD and can easily visualise a 3D object from a 3 view.

Perhaps in a few decades we will be viewing the latest crop of CAD programs as redundant. As good as they are they still have several limiatations and a high complexity which require a steep learning curve, and some case workaround soloution in order to get your design in production.

[latheboy]

I'm a Toolmaker and head of Design and Manufacturing in the company i work for. I go through alot of paper doing a quick sketch just to show someone a concept.
I think hand drawing is very important for any draftsmen or machinist.

When doing quick jobs for myself i just do a sketch, why would i fire up Solidworks to draw a simple shaft and spacer?

The biggest problem I come across are people (Tradesmen) who can't read a drawing.
The amount of times I get asked "what's the dimension for this or that" when it's on the drawing kills me.

1. Teach them to read an Engineering Drawing and what the symbols mean.
2. Teach them how to put their ideas on paper.
3. CAD

Just my 0.02c

[ImanCarrot]

I have gotten too many who claim CAD credits and who really cannot draw. Then I have to terminate them. Not fun thing to do.

eeek! that's a bit harsh! killing someone who can't draw!

lol Anyway, I can do both but rarely use paper these days, it's handy to have if you're visiting a sub- contractor and need to explain something to an engineer who also understands drawings.

OT good tip (might be useful for teachers)- when explaining how to figure out what views go where on a 2D drawing- picture the component at the bottom of a goldfish bowl, that view goes in the middle. Slide it up the left hand side- what you see goes on the left hand side, slide it up the top of the bowl, what you see goes above etc. Simple and effective

[bigalexe]

I just finished 4 years of Community College (well on my way to being a professional student) and came out with a Manufacturing Tech, and an Engineering Graphics Associate Degree. I am not a teacher and I am not claiming to be one. My only teaching experience comes from assisting other students in my classes or in other classes during open lab time, and sometimes I spent more time helping then I did actually working which is my own fault.

After being around at a CC for so long though I got to know one of the Decision Makers quite well, and he actually bounced a curriculum idea off me (which probably inflated my ego) that relates to this topic very well.

For years the Intro to Drafting & Intro to CAD course has been taught as a hybrid of Manual Drafting and 2D AutoCAD. Over the past few years however this individual who is pretty well grounded in AutoCAD has started to like Parametric Software. The idea he suggested to me was near eliminating manual drafting in favor of being able to move into Solidworks Parametrics on a very basic level during this introductory course.

This led to a number of emails and discussions between me and him regarding the merits and needs of 2D vs 3D drawing ability, and the need for drafting skills. The result I came up with is the following:

1.) Manual Drafting as I see it and as I am told is near dead as a primary job skill. However Manual Drafting as a complementary skill is still very much alive and will continue to be alive as long as we produce paper. In my limited employment experience I have used manual skill to quickly (under 30 seconds) relay ideas I had about designs, whereas actually drawing it on the computer would have taken much longer. These drawings of course were done freehand (not to scale) but still in order to get the point across I need to use center lines and dimensions properly. Sometimes its just better to rough it out with a pen.

2.) 2D Drawing has a place in machinery & manufacturing. This is an absolutely vital skill. In fact my next employment will be as a 2D Drafter nearly exclusively. Also I had the pleasure of working with someone in my Die Design course who had managed to get in without taking the intro course. This was the worst person I have ever worked with in school or in work, inability to read 2D drawings will kill you.

3.) 3D Modeling has a bigger and bigger place. My current employment is exclusively 3D Modeling because the items I deal with cannot be reasonably defined with 2D prints. They are plastic, and the most efficient way to deal with them is just as 3D Models. The only time I have ever done a 2D drawing was for a product presentation. Also the die shop where a friend of mine works does all their CAM straight from the models, prints are used as references.

4.) Overall there is a place and a need for Drawing, Drafting, and Modeling skills on varying levels depending on your trade. However a significant lack of competence in one area can seriously sink your boat.

5.) TEACHING: I believe that the best way to introduce people to drafting is with the pencil and paper. This is because EVERYONE knows how a pencil works, and not everyone knows how software works. I believe that when you are teaching drafting skills, it can be highly beneficial to ignore software because the software can over-complicate the teaching process.

So I believe there is and always will be a place for teaching of manual drafting, however I do not believe that someone's skill with a pencil should make or break them. Don't stress over forcing students to use a specific tool, instead let them find the tool they are most comfortable with and grade them on the results they produce.

[wildwestpat]

Hi bigalexe

I was with you till I read the last sentence. It is not what the individual is happy with that counts it is their potential employer demands. With the whole industry going digital there is little demand for paper skills other than the quick free hand sketch to communicate an idea.

Unfortunately there are a lot of different drawing packages in use and changing from one to another is a real pain but again it is the employers choice. Take a look at the employment CV of a typical software program writer - they graduate on a particular software language - hone their skills for four or five years inheir first employment in that language - BUT - during that time they get restless and start to explore other program languages - at the four to five year point they will take another job to apply their latest program writing skills - and so on. The rapid turn over can be expected to become the norm in engineering design possibly to a lesser extent as the CAD packages themselves are rapidly 'improving' as computing power increases.

Regards = Pat

[lost_cause]

in the end, a computer is just a tool to do a job, just as a pencil and paper is a tool to do a job. this is no different than a hammer vs nail gun debate to be honest. in today's world you will use the modern tool, because it is more efficient. whether you care about your employees being proficient with the older methods may not matter to you, but i'd be willing to bet that the ones who are capable of the old way will be more proficient at their overall job. i'm not saying that they will always be faster, but their ability to visualize the job will be better, and they will be more versatile.

i entered the workforce in 1990, and three years later got my first taste of the cad world. sure, we had been exposed to it in school, but just a small dose. after 1993, it was the way that 99% of our work was done. with today's 3d modeling software, it is a lot easier to visualize in 3d than it used to be, so i think it has probably been better for everyone in this aspect. if the work goes directly from solids to cnc machinery to the jobsite/end user, then you may be fine. if you have to create 2d paper drawings out of 3d solid models, someone with manual drafting skills will win every time. the place where these systems often fall down is in the transition to paper. software is only a tool, and it only does what you tell it to do. any software package that is capable of creating a drawing will give what should be enough information to do whatever is required. my experience is that it is often not complete enough. only someone who came up on a drafting board will be able to look at a computer generated drawing and see if it is complete enough to work from, because they learned to make it that way without computer help.

in an individual shop, it may only matter whether a person can operate the tool (software) needed to complete the job, but in my world, drawings may be subbed out and sometimes have to be changed on the fly. often one shop may not have the software or personnel to make the change in the model and recreate a new drawing, or maybe they were issued paper copies and not an electronic file. the change may need to be done with pencil and paper. sure, anyone can pick up a pencil and scribble information on a drawing, but to be honest, quality is as important as correctness. some shops are poorly lit, maybe the machine operator can't read your writing. maybe the text is too small to be read. maybe the lighting makes it impossible to tell the difference between dimensions and object lines.

as far as i'm concerned, line quality, line weight, and lettering are becoming a lost art. these attributes along with a general understanding of what is required to create an object from a drawing will lead to a better qualified employee.

[keithmech]

It all translates down to money in the real world.
Look at all the cost savings with cad; storage,transporability
durability and the most important, modification ,spent days hand drawing a part only to find out it needs to be 5" narrower.Simple in cad,deadly by hand.Then get out the ammonia and run off a copy ,call the courrier company,ship ,wait 2 days and erase,erase,erase.YUCK. Some people confuse sketching and drafting.A sketch is just that ,where as a drafted drawing is a document with every bit of information needed to manufacture that item.That drafting must be so complete that it can be made any where by any one at any time or else it is scrap.
I am not a teacher but have worked in this industry fors way too long.
I never get young people stopping into the shop to see ,what goes on
or looking for a job.Over the last 35 years alot has changed.We had
a vibrant blacksmithing industry up to the 60's.Tool and die making is
almost gone ,being replaced by cheaper /faster/better technology.
Some people say manual machining is important to know.
Why?You turn the cranks or the computer turns the cranks.Spending 2 weeks on lettering is now just dumb.We do not need artists ,we need people who can think.Visualization skills .
Lots of smart kids out there ,way too smart to not realize route learning is
a skill best left behind with the blacksmith.
Find the fun and learning is easy.