Which machine for classroom use?

[bbuonomo]

FIRST, I'm glad i scrolled down today, i never noticed this section :-)

This year I've been focusing on updating a Bridgeport Series 1 CNC (was BOSS5, now Mach 3 controlled).

Problem is this machine sits in our AUTOMOTIVE LAB and is not available most periods of the day, so I'm truing to decide what can I do to bring CNC to my computer lab.

So far I'm stuck between a CNC Mill and a LASER CUTTER (20-50 watt versalaser). I'm still learning about CNC and I know almost nothing about laser.

I want to be able to "output" cad drawings to plastic or metal. I know if I wnat to cut metal (aluminum) i need a CNC Mill. If I want to be bale to cut 2D parts and assemble them i can use a lsercutter, plus i know you can do all sorts of cool engraving with laser.

What kinds of options can a CNC router provide? When I think router I think wood, foam and plastic, which are find mediums, and cheaper than aluminum, but can you do that in an enclosed box and not smoke out a computer lab classroom?

Am i just crazy, and should just stick with the BP Series 1CNC?

Thanks

Brian

[charper]

I myself have a Versa Laser cutter and two small Techno Davinci Mills. Small Cheap. Classroom friendly. The laser I have was working great. I cut wood, I cut acrylic, then I just lost the carbon filter and it will cost $300 to replace.

The mill I have is cheap and versitile. My kids can design on Rhino, import to Mastercam and cut away. I can also cut wood and acrltlic (in addition to aluminum). It just takes time and a lot of passesm where the laser is quick. But the mill is 10K as opposed to the cost of a laser (30K?)

Let's look at your kids and the type of projects you want to do. Also, what is your cost range? I am from Miami Dade schools, so we are a pretty big disctrict..but most of the teachers here have small Techno mills.

What is it you want to do with your kids. Intro to manufacturing? Robotics?

[bbuonomo]

Budget? Well last year one of our parent organizations donated $60,000 to the music department. Our robotics team (www.westisliprobotics.com) has generated a lot of interest over the past few years and we very well may be able to cash in and get some new equipment if the proposal is well written. We're very grateful for what we currently have, but trying to get new industrial / technology equipment (other than computers) is VERY difficult.

We currently have Principles of Engineering, CAD (2D and 3D) and DDP (Design and Drawing for Production) classes that would directly benefit from the ability to design and create parts in a PC and then machine or laser cut the parts to build 3D models. The classes cover general CAD, robotics, manufacturing and mass production elements.

I realize that laser more of a "wow" technology and CNC mill is a slower, cheaper and more relevant process. I guess I'm looking for what other teachers are using and feel is the better technology to jump on. Like I said, we have a Bridgeport Series 1 CNC, its just not convenient to run if the auto class is doing demonstrations or lectures, and it is not practical to bring an entire class down to a different room just to watch a part run. It would be far more beneficial to have a "mini" mill or laser cutter in the room. I wouldn't mind the noise or time on the mill as much as having to trek down to the autolab with 20 students.

So which do you recommend? Mill or laser? which do you have the most run time on? How fast are the laser run times vs the mill run times? What are the differences is machine downtime / maintenance? What issues may I be completely unaware of? (I'm sure there are a few).

My specialization is in Computers and Networking, I teach the Cisco Networking Academy Program and am CCNA Certified. But in HS my fondest memories are of all the machining we did in a 3 year engineering sequence. I've lead the school's robotics team for 5 years and have slowly rebuilt our machining capabilities (the old "industrial arts machine shop was liquidated years before i started teaching). Bringing machining technology from outside just the robotics program has been a goal for a long time. I just don't know which way is the best way to "mainstream" CNC technology for all the other classes we offer.

Sorry for the lengthy post. Just hoping to get as much info as I can.

[bbuonomo]

you know what, maybe laser would be the best way to go, only because it may provide that "WOW look what they can do" mentality. But am I overlooking anything? Is laser reall as easy at it sounds?

[MDLang]

Laser is very pretty but not that usefull.

I would think you would like to make alot of parts from aluminium and if so I would suggest perhaps a Hass super mini mill. Basicly operates the same as any fullsize vertical milling center but comes in a very small package.

I work in a full grown production /job shop and about 40% of our mill production could be handled equally well on a super mini as it is on our larger machines.

Bang for the buck it would be a great educational tool, productive, capable and it's the kind of thing a student would actually see in industry only smaller.

At 6.5' x 6.5' it's the smallest mill with "real mill" capabilities that I can think of.

ps. 1200 inch per minute rapid feedrates scare even experienced machinists. Think about something moving at 20 KM/H to within .1 of the part. It still makes me think "wow".

http://www.haascnc.com/VMC_MODEL_MIN...p#VMCTreeModel

[bbuonomo]

that is my main concern with laser, it can't produce anything functional. It would be models of parts or aestestical pieces.

That HAAS mill looks great, but I need this thing in a classroom, sort of like in the corner where you would put a printer. :-)

Speaking of which, does anyone have information on the Z-Corp 3D printer and/or other rapid prototypers?

I understand i couldn't use it for real parts.

[Switcher]

Take a look at this diy 3D printer, looks good!

Link:
http://128.253.249.235/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Video:
http://web.mae.cornell.edu/ccsl/temp...bDemoMovie.wmv







.

[bbuonomo]

that is incredible!!!

I'm still undecided what to get for the classroom, but I think no matter what I get for teh computer lab, I'm going to look into building a CNC machine with my engineering class. I don't care if it is a fab, a CNC router or even if it is a pen plotter, it will be so cool to build one of these things...

[charper]

Miami dade has about 10-15 HS high schools with an active engineering program. Perhaps about 5 schools have a laser, ours included, but virtually everyone has a mill. The mill will allow you to make parts for the robot/battlebots, whatever it is you are doing. Brackets, plates, etc. Use that to your advantage to at least get one. Piggy back off the robotics club and let them see what it is you can do for them. Regardless of whether or not you want to get a laser or printer, the CNC can probably be paid for today when they see how it can help them. Then..get more MORE MORE!!!HA HA HA HA HA

ok..I'll stop

[bbuonomo]

I'm starting to see that this really is an addiction :-)

My only concern is that the laser is more expensive, so I may ask for that first. But I'm starting to understand that the mill is the more useful or productive machine to start with.

I spoke with the guy behind the fab project, I may try to build that on the side out of supply money. I need to make a decision this week, so I'll have an update sometime soon.

Thanks for all the feedback.

[charper]

If you ask for the laser, you could probably get both. A mill might run you about 10K. Yell if you want to see any curriculum samples or something...I bet I could scan something in for you.

Now, you say you teach networking and computers, do you work with any of those small boe-bots. we have a local competition and some of the teachers use the laser to rebuild custom chassis for those competitions.

WHen things settle down, share some of you projects, we could probably put our heads together on something

[bbuonomo]

Funny you mention curriculum. :-)

Actually right now I have nothing mor ethan some lessons on machine safety, precise measurement (ruler, caliper, micrometer), and some drawings from the CAD classes for a few parts that I think are easy to make.

If you have any book sto recomend or some materials you could post or e-mail me, i'd greatly appreciate it.

I'd really like to find some typ eof a small machine that they could make the parts for. Something like a small steam engine or even just a something with parts that connect for simple motion, no real intended output. Some type of a mechanical toy.

I used to work with the BOE Bots when the FIRST Robotics competition used p BAsic for programming. Now they use C and I haven't cracked open the BOE bot kit in a while.

But I would like to make some servo brakets and build a small robotic arm or BOE style bot. Thanks for the info.

Brian