Sieg X1 vs. Taig & a few other things

[ChrisPDX]

Hello everyone, this is my first post so let me introduce myself. Despite my screen name I'm actually located in Honolulu, which kind of relates to my questions. Let me explain...

Back on the mainland I have a manual X1 that I am considering bringing out and CNC-ing. I basically have it narrowed down either going with the X1 and adding the CNC fusion and extended x & y kit or getting a CNC ready Taig. In either case I will use the Xylotex kit to drive it. I figure it will cost around $500 extra if I go for the Taig. I will mostly be making small RC, robot, etc. parts from acetal or HDPE, perhaps a little aluminum as well. Because I am going to be shipping this out and/or bringing pieces back with me on the airplane next month, I really can't justify going with a larger machine such as the X2 or X3. All of the research I have done tells me that the Taig would be more accurate for my applications, and the extra $500 isn't that bad, BUT I have the following X1 specific tooling that I would hate to give up:

-MT2 collet set
-1/4" MT2 end mill holder
-MT2 boring bar set
-2 MT2 mounted drill chucks

Here are my questions:

1) Is the higher quality of the Taig worth the extra $500 + tooling for my application (this is just a hobby, not production, I would like accuracy but I don't need extreme accuracy)
2) Does anyone happen to have the overall dimensions of either the Taig or the X1 with their respective CNC parts added? I am asking this because I am currently building an enclosure and I would like to be able to accommodate either machine.
3) I am debating between the complete plug-and-play Xylotex kit and the add-your-own enclosure kit. Anyone have opinions on either? Is the plug-and-play worth the extra $100?

I know these questions are largely subject to personal opinions, but that is exactly what I am looking for. I will post pictures of my enclosure soon.

Mahalo,

-Chris

[Stepper Monkey]

First let me start by saying I am a big fan of the Taig in the smaller machine range. That being said, I know a couple of folks that have done the CNC on an X1, gotten frustrated with its performance as a CNC, dumped it, and either bought a Taig or just moved up a size class to the X3. I also know a couple of folks that picked up CNC'ed X1s cheap (refer to the dumping comment above), and were also unhappy with them. They seem to be kind of a hot potato in that respect, which tells me something.

I have never owned an X1, but I have been called out to work with people trying to tweak them to adequate function, or to help people set up their replacement machine after they gave up and threw in the towel. In short, I haven't seen a truly happy CNC'ed X1 owner yet, although I have seen some perfectly content with them in manual configuration. They just aren't very well suited for CNC conversion.

Perhaps there is someone here with one they do like and can tell you what they did to make it livable, but in practice I would stay away from them and just pick up a Taig or drop ship one out to where you are. You can save a lot of weight and cost in shipping and a good hundred bucks or so off the initial price by simply ordering one without the motor - it is a generic AC motor of a common size and it's easy enough to find a lot of equivalent or better replacements locally or surplus if you are so inclined.

[ChrisPDX]

Thanks for the reply. I was leaning towards CNC-ing my X1 since I already own one, however if the Taig is truly superior it would make more sense to go that route instead. I am curious about the specific advantages the Taig has over the X1. I know the build quality is better on the Taig, but it seems like they are comparable in terms of size, stiffness, rigidity, and type of lead screw. Also, I would be adding the extended x & y kits to the X1, which I understand helps out quite a bit. What problems have people typically encountered on the X1 that makes it unsuitable for CNC?



I attached a picture of something I made on my manual X1 setup to give you an idea of the type of work I will be doing (the material is HDPE, it is a linkage). Because my creations typically consist of several small parts moving together, being able to accurately locate holes for alignment dowels, etc. is most important to me. I also used the boring bar setup on my X1 to bore a hole to lightly press fit a bearing in (not shown in this picture). Would I be able to machine a hole like this accurately enough on either the CNC X1 or Taig, or would a secondary machining operation (i.e. boring) still be necessary? In that case, is there even an option for boring with the Taig?


I like your suggestion of shipping the Taig without the motor, however it may be more trouble trying to track something like that down here (it’s pretty hit and miss, and sometimes you end up paying for shipping anyway). Shipping is funny here, for heavy objects that are relatively small, parcel post is the most economical (34” x 17” x 17” <70 lb is $50), that is why I want to stick to a Taig/X1 size machine, since I can break it down and either ship it in two boxes, or check the two boxes on the airplane when I return next month to visit. I can’t find any Taig dealer that ships USPS unfortunately, so it would end up being cheaper for me to have it sent to a mainland address and then forwarded through USPS.
I guess I am still on the fence, I think the Taig would probably be better for my application, I’m just not sure it’s $500 + tooling better. Then again, if the X1 is basically unsuitable for CNC then any time spent pursuing that option would be wasted time.

-Chris

[SpeedsCustom]

With the Taig you will be able too achieve any size hole you need for your job. Set up your software and your Taig will do it. I love my taig and I put it through some work! Trust me, the taig is sweet. You won't be disappointed, thats for sure!


-Jason

[MIKE JEFFERS]

i have a home built x1 cnc and it works very well for what it is
but the tiag seems a more complete machine
why not buy the tiag any way and use the x1 manually ,cant have too many machines

mike

[Harryman]

If your time is worth anything, go with the Taig, it'll work well right out of the box.

Ebay your extra tooling and put it towards the extra $500.

[sansbury]

I have an X1 that I am working through a CNC conversion. I've never worked with a Taig, so I can't compare directly.

I think the weakest point on the X1 is the Z axis. If you drive the whole head then it is hard to really lock the gibs up tight. The quill has about 1.25" of travel and funky backlash issues that scare a lot of people off that route, but I think it may yield better results as it allows you to lock the head. At least if the travel is sufficient, which it is for most uses with careful planning.

What are your requirements in terms of accuracy? If you're making parts to fit each other, my guess is that the X1 could do a good job. Three parts may be .010" off the drawing, but they will be within .001" of each other. I'd still use a boring head for press-fit bearings and bushings, though, at least with the backlash I'm living with.

All that being said, if I was doing it over again and had the money, I'd probably buy the CNC-ready Taig. The X1 was a compromise based on budget and on that basis I'm happy with it. I wonder if most of the problems aren't due to people expecting too much from a mill that sells for ~$300 new.

[twocik]

Do yourself a favor, get the taig !!!

[ChrisPDX]

Due to the virtually unanimous response in favor of the Taig, I plan on going that route. I will probably keep the X1 in storage on the mainland since it works pretty good as a small manual mill. I am almost done with the base of my enclosure, I will post pictures soon. I was wondering what size base most of you are using for the Taig? I was thinking of making my enclosure 36" wide x 24" deep x 36" tall, however I am concerned that I may not be giving myself enough room, particularly in the y-axis direction.

Thanks for all of the help so far!

Aloha,

-Chris

[Stepper Monkey]

Make sure you definitely allow for enough Y travel - you will most likely be extending the Y travel an inch or two at some point anyway, as it is trivial to do and you will eventually run into a workpiece that needs the extra travel.

[SpeedsCustom]

Your enclosure sounds right, Mine is 48x21xinfinity the 21 is close, very close, so there is going too have too be modifications.


-Jason