Looking to put a Taig Mill unit on my K2 CNC machine...? Yes/No?

[MychesterCNC]

I have a K2 CNC machine, and it has the standard Bosch router. I'm looking to make slow, small passes (I have all the time in the world) and want (need) to keep my unit quiet.

Looking on Youtube, I love how the Taig Mill (I have a Taig Lathe, and know how quiet those run) makes some noise but it overall pretty quiet. But a Taig Mill doesnt have the travel that my K2 does...

Is it possible to get a Taig motor/mill head and mount it to where the Bosch router goes? I assume if I find a way, it is possible, but is it a good idea? For one thing, it seems to me that the Bosch has a (much) higher RPM than the Taig Mill, but I was thinking if I slowed down the travel speed that would take care of that.

Other than needing to take smaller bites, and move at a slower speed, is there any other disadvantage that I'm overlooking? Is there a reason more setups aren't like this....?

Thanks!

[cameraguy]

what are you cutting? the heads are for two different tasks (mostly). the K2 unit may not be rigid enough for the type of (relatively) heavy milling the Taig unit can do.
however, if you are just milling the same stuff that the bosch unit was doing, you probably can slow down the feed to match the speed and mill just fine. depends on material and tooling though. again it comes down to what you are cutting.
you can get a taig spindle, they do rock, but the heavy motor cantilevered out and off-center the way it is may not do your K2 Z axis any favors if it wasn't built for it. a lighter motor may be in order. if you want a taig spindle i have some er16 spares from when i went to vfd spindles myself.
thats another option; just going to a vfd spindle yourself will cut the awful noise of that colt while keeping all your speed if that is an option that fits in your budget.

[MychesterCNC]

what are you cutting? the heads are for two different tasks (mostly). the K2 unit may not be rigid enough for the type of (relatively) heavy milling the Taig unit can do.
however, if you are just milling the same stuff that the bosch unit was doing, you probably can slow down the feed to match the speed and mill just fine. depends on material and tooling though. again it comes down to what you are cutting.
you can get a taig spindle, they do rock, but the heavy motor cantilevered out and off-center the way it is may not do your K2 Z axis any favors if it wasn't built for it. a lighter motor may be in order. if you want a taig spindle i have some er16 spares from when i went to vfd spindles myself.
thats another option; just going to a vfd spindle yourself will cut the awful noise of that colt while keeping all your speed if that is an option that fits in your budget.

Tell me more! What's a vfd spindle? I looked online a little, and see they are aircooled, is that the difference?

I'd be cutting mostly aluminum, and I am open to even an overpriced solution- I just want the noise cut down, and I'm HAPPY to take incredibly small, slow passes or to do almost anything else to accomodate another drive besides the Bosch that would be quieter... Is that why you switched, and what would you suggest if I just want to cut as quietly as possible?

[cameraguy]

go to ebay and look up "water cooled spindle" and you will see what i mean. i use the smallest .8kw er11 units as i don't need more than a 1/4" collet capacity. even with the smallest one, thats still well over 1/2 horsepower at 6k-24k rpm, its quiet, variable speed that can be controlled from gcode, and still far lighter than the stock motor. waaaaay less runout, smaller, quieter, and more powerful than a bosch colt and only about twice as heavy. dense little suckers.

these are actually the proper solution that the bosch colt started getting used as a cheap replacement to get around paying for. they are more expensive, and they need water cooling (which is easy enough to set up using gaming computer water cooling gear or similar). they also need a vfd, or variable frequency drive, which often come cheap with the chinese spindles but can be of questionable quality. i got a chinese spindle and a japanese vfd from hitachi myself. way more trustworthy.

a whole setup for me was under USD$500 all ready to go, with a japanese vfd, spindle, er11 collet set, and cooling rig. pricey, but awesome.

[fretsman]

Interesting, as I've been playing with the idea of doing this as well (thanks for posting Mychestercnc!).

Cameraguy, can you post part numbers of your setup so I can have a look at what you're using?

Also, since these are watercooled, can an antifreeze type solutuon be incorporated for those of us in an outside shop that will freeze in the winters overnight?

Thanks for the info-
Dave

[MychesterCNC]

Interesting, as I've been playing with the idea of doing this as well (thanks for posting Mychestercnc!).

Cameraguy, can you post part numbers of your setup so I can have a look at what you're using?

Also, since these are watercooled, can an antifreeze type solutuon be incorporated for those of us in an outside shop that will freeze in the winters overnight?

Thanks for the info-
Dave

Sure thing! I've asked this like a year ago, but since nobody replied, I thought it was a silly question...now I'm tickled to have a real solution. Plus I'd also be interested to know about the antifreeze solution, since my shop is not heated too....

[Smertrios]

I have made 1/2" deep x .245 wide cuts with a 1/4" x 1.5"LOC carbide endmill spinning at about 8000 RPM using my TAIG in a piece of 4x4 construction lumber. Hit what may have been a harder spot in the wood and stopped the spindle! I raised the depth so it was only .3 inches deep in the wood and had no problem. Quiet is not how I would describe it but I have no idea what a bosch router sounds like... That said I have read a few posts recommending someone upgrade their trim router with a DWP611 router to "save their ears".

"http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DWP611-Torque-Variable-Compact/dp/B0048EFUV8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1326397077&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: DEWALT DWP611 1.25 HP Max Torque Variable Speed Compact Router with LED's: Home Improvement

As far as quality routers go this is not expensive and got good reviews.

EDIT: Feedrate was 90 IPM

[cameraguy]

when i get back to the shop i will write down numbers and take pics. not much help anyway as much of it is one-off stuff, i am afraid, but it will give you an idea. i am using radiator/fan setups i got surplus from some lab gear (co2 laser cooling) so that isn't reproducible, but easy to get something else close. the spindle is generic chinese .8kw stuff, i will get numbers from the side when i can. the inverters are hitachi L100 units, 1hp 110v single phase input so they plug into the normal us mains. i think the L100 is recently discontinued, but the L200 or whatever replaced it is still out there. they plug into a normal outlet and were only like $200 iirc.
i have a digital flowmeter in-line with the coolant to sound an alarm and shut down the system if coolant flow ever stops. my shop is heated, but i have some antifreeze in there right now as a corrosion inhibitor to prevent issues with dissimilar metal reactions between the aluminum radiator, the steel, and whatever else might be inside the pump contact with the coolant in there. it isn't enough to prevent hard freezing or anything, but you could always add more and i cannot imagine it would hurt anything.

as for noise - nothing will quiet down the sound of the router bits hogging wood! aluminum, however, it is much quieter to cut. with aluminum the spindle is the primary source of noise. the spindles themselves are dead quiet on the taig and the vfd compared to a standard brushed router motor! the bosch colt i have for wood drives me nuts!

[MychesterCNC]

AWESOME! Thanks, I'll watch for that. I love this forum, what did people do before the internet?!

[cameraguy]

just remembered i was going to get you that spindle info last week. sorry about that.

i will be at the shop again later today and will write that stuff down for you. hopefully you are still out there!

[fretsman]

I'm still here, thank you-

Dave

[B-RAD]

I'm waiting too.