Taig advice

[kayse]

An old toolmaker thinking AMERICAN MADE Benchtop Machine for the garage
fun(and learn new tricks)
Got a few questions about Taig lathes-1)Advertised on different sites in the mid
$400 range as basic starter lathe, anybody know if this includes power feed?
and Threading(how done)?
Got a few questions about Taig mills-1)not familiar with with anything but R8
assume whatever Taig uses to hold cutters/chucks tightens with drawbar on taper?2)How long will spindle/bearings hold up at max 10000Rpm?

What I'd like to do: Lathe first (manual)for month or 2 then Mill (manual) month or 2-- find out what these puppies are made of.

My ultimate objective would be CNC retrofit of both(the learning new tricks part)-lathe first using steppers and spindle speed control. Mill second using brushed/brushless servo and 4th axis even though they say overkill vs. stepper

By this time I'll be in so far over my head- Got a Quite a few Questions
1) do sherline CNC parts(servomotor controller etc work on Taig)
2)from other threads it looks like ballscrew/nuts won't fit to replace leadscrews
3)from another cnczone thread there was discussion about aluminum ways/gib
on X axis of the mill-True or False?
4) whats aluminum on lathe?
5) feasible on mill to cut graphite EDM electrode 3D CNC?
6) what leadtime between place order and recieve

Thats more than enough for now and Thanks for any feedback

[cameraguy]

The Taig stuff is solid and a great value. The lathe is small, not much bigger than a watchmakers lathe. It is good for what it is, but don't expect to do any kind of heavy work with it. It is a small precision tool, and for heavy stuff you would be better off with something else. On the other hand the mill is a sturdy little beast and will hold up to pretty much whatever you can throw at it. For benchtop machines it is a winner.

As for servos, they don't do as well for this size machine. Steppers are not only just as good, but actually arguably a lot better for smaller machines. Servos are a requirement for bigger machines, but the math is a lot different here. I wouldn't bother with the extra expense and trouble.
The Taig ways are indeed aluminum with a hard coat, and they are that way for good reason. You shouldn't worry about durability, they will hold up about forever, you just have some restrictions on the coolant you can use is about all.
Ballscrews can be added, but it isn't really worth it to do to a Taig. If you need something with ballscrews, its easier and cheaper just to start with a machine that has them. For accuracy, ballscrews are overrated in benchtop machines, especially as cheap rolled ballscrews and bearing blocks are usually less accurate than good screws. They still have advantages for longevity in production environments, but most of their real advantages just disappear at this scale.

A Taig isn't a $15k machine, which is what machines this size cost with steel ways and ground ballscrews and the rest. It was designed to give very close performance to those machines, and for under a grand, which it does astoundingly well. If you really need a $15k machine though, its better to just start out with one than try to monkey a Taig into the job.

[awerby]

But for the questions he didn't address:

1)Advertised on different sites in the mid
$400 range as basic starter lathe, anybody know if this includes power feed?
and Threading(how done)?

[You can get one for about that much with a power feed, but that's an optional accessory. The lathe can do threading with a die-holder which takes button dies. Here's some info on the power feed: Power Feed ]

assume whatever Taig uses to hold cutters/chucks tightens with drawbar on taper?2)

[No, the Taig uses a tapered collet with a closer nut that tightens with two wrenches into a tapered spindle; there's no drawbar.]

How long will spindle/bearings hold up at max 10000Rpm?

[I've used one for years (but not continuously) and never wore it out. I imagine that's possible to do, but by then you'll definitely have gotten your money's worth. You are supposed to break it in gently, though, running the spindle at low speed for a few hours, then at medium for a few more, before turning it up to max speed.]

1) do sherline CNC parts(servomotor controller etc work on Taig)

[Sherline's system is based on steppers, not servos. You could fit it onto a Taig, I suppose, but ithe motors are less powerful than the ones on Taig's systems, so they may not work as well and you'd also have to deal with Linux. Also, their cables use different plugs.]

2)from other threads it looks like ballscrew/nuts won't fit to replace leadscrews

[There are people who say they've done it, but it's not easy or cheap, especially if you want precision equivalent to the existing screws/nuts.]

3)from another cnczone thread there was discussion about aluminum ways/gib
on X axis of the mill-True or False?

[There is a big aluminum block with hard-coating on the X axis, against which an adjustable bronze gibs rides. It seems to work pretty well; I've never worn one out, anyway. The Y-axis rides on big steel bars, and the Z uses all-steel box ways.]


4) whats aluminum on lathe?

[The bed is steel, but the table is aluminum, as are the tailstock, and the jaws of the 3-jaw chuck.]

5) feasible on mill to cut graphite EDM electrode 3D CNC?

[Not really; that abrasive grit will get in everywhere and wreck any moving parts. Plus it's conductive, so if it gets into your electronics, they're toast...]

6) what leadtime between place order and recieve

[It depends on what exactly you're ordering, but it's a lot better than it has been. Lathes are quickest; CNC mills are slowest. Figure 2-3 weeks to most places in the lower 48, unless they have a production bottleneck of some kind.]

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[cameraguy]

There is a big aluminum block with hard-coating on the X axis, against which an adjustable bronze gibs rides. It seems to work pretty well; I've never worn one out, anyway. The Y-axis rides on big steel bars, and the Z uses all-steel box ways.

I asked him about the aluminum block once and why he used it. He said that a steel system there would have doubled the price of the mill. That would be a cost for everyone who bought one, but only a very few people have ever managed to wear them out, even in production environments. He couldn't see the reason to double the cost of all the mills sold for the fraction of a percent of the people who use them heavily enough, and for enough years, to need to replace the ways.
For those few people who do manage it, he pointed out that the assembly was designed as an easily replaceable part - one that cost $90, and only takes a couple hours to change out.

All in all I was impressed with his reasoning. Its a well though out machine.

[awetmore]

e)?
Got a few questions about Taig mills-1)not familiar with with anything but R8
assume whatever Taig uses to hold cutters/chucks tightens with drawbar on taper?2)How long will spindle/bearings hold up at max 10000Rpm?

There is a drawbar, but it is only used with the drill chuck. There are two incompatible collet systems for the Taig lathe, one uses ER16 collets and the other uses Taig collets. Both use a retaining nut instead of a drawbar, and the ER16 collets are double tapered and cover a wider range. The headstock is also hardened, where it is not with the Taig collets. The lathe uses the same headstock as the mill with the Taig collets, so if you are going to have both that might be an advantage.

This shows what the Taig collets look like:
LittleMachineShop.com - Collet Set, Taig

The mill has a pretty unconventional design, but it works very well. I have a CNC one and use it with a Gecko G540 controller.

alex

[awerby]

they did use a drawbar for the drill chuck. But the new system doesn't; they provide an arbor for the Jacobs chuck with a 3/8" shaft coming out the back; that fits in the 3/8" collet, and tightens with the closer nut, the same as any tool. You can still purchase the old-style spindle which takes the proprietary collets, but hardly anybody does anymore.

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[cameraguy]

The lathe uses the same headstock as the mill with the Taig collets, so if you are going to have both that might be an advantage.

I forgot about that old Taig collet system. Do they still even offer it? I think everyone pretty much moved away from it. I would suggest just using the ER16 all around, the old legacy system has no real point anymore.

Even my lathe was ordered from Taig as an ER16 so it worked with my mill, which is apparently a pretty common thing to do, so I know you aren't stuck with the original Taig system with the lathes either.

[kayse]

Sorry for the delay in getting back and THANKS for replies.I might be getting
cold feet on the Taig but still thinking about the lathe in the next month or so.
In the meantime I'm trying to round up info/prices on the Unimat metalline CNC

[cameraguy]

Sorry for the delay in getting back and THANKS for replies.I might be getting
cold feet on the Taig but still thinking about the lathe in the next month or so.
In the meantime I'm trying to round up info/prices on the Unimat metalline CNC

Unimat is a nice little unit, but I would stress LITTLE. It is two or three times as expensive than the Taig and a whole lot less capable. Now you are back to all-aluminum sub-Sherline sized mills again.
The Taig is by far the strongest and beefiest of the little benchtops, but since you keep mentioning things like R8 tooling, servos, drawbars, and power feeds, I think you are looking at a different class of machine. Those particular options are usually in 600 lb+ machines. Perhaps you would be better served looking into one of those instead.