Advice Deepgroove VS DSLS3000

[smo10018]

Am looking at buying a taig CNC Mill in the next few months and am wondering what I am missing when comparing the ready to go Deepgroove cnc mill compared to the dsls3000 version? The price difference is quite large but I don't see why? Can anyone enlighten me on this? Is there a decided advantage to the DSLS3000 version?

I have no experience with cnc milling which may be why I am not seeing the difference.

Thanks for the help.

Sean

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[lsces]

Hardware wise there is no difference. It's the same machine. Where the difference comes in is with the electronic and stepper motors. The DSLS3000 has added encoders to the stepper motors and the electronics to ensure each axis has actually moved to the right place. At a quick glance this seems to be a good improvement. Making the stepper motors closed loop should ensure that there are no missed steps? The problem is that the computer driving things knows nothing about the state of each axis, resulting in Cornering on the DSLS3000. Yes the DSLS3000 controller can drive the machine over twice as fast as the basic 2000LE, but only with care as any change in direction can start before the mill itself has caught up.

The comparison asked was to the Deepgrove package which uses a gecko driver, and using similar sized motors, the bipolar drivers get more power out of them than the unipolar driver in the Microproto controllers. It is only because the the Microproto is still half stepping that the closed loop 'upgrade' can be made, as it basically keeps driving one phase of the motor until it detects it has moved. The buffer that makes this work can be up to 200 steps behind the other axies so positional accuracy is compromised.

Personally I do not like the 1/10th stepping mode which is all the gecko driver provides. It may seem to provide finer accuracy over 1/2 stepping, but in practice 7 or 8 of the sub-steps are on one half of the cycle and only 2 or 3 on the other. My own preference currently is some of the new 3Nm NEMA23 motors along with a 4.2Amp quarter stepping driver which results in the same top speed as the DSLS3000 but without the cornering problem, and pretty accurate 1/16th thou step size. Those clients that have upgraded find that the results are an improvement over the 1/8th thou steps of the original setups when re-cutting the same jobs they had cut previously.
There is little to better the Taig mill currently, but it does benefit from a better control system.

Deepgrove got bad press in the past due to cost cutting with the Xylotex drivers, but have learnt ...

[awerby]

There are advantages to the DSLS system. For one thing, if you encounter an error, which causes a mismatch between achieved position as measured by the encoders and the position commanded by the G-code, it will stop the machine before it has a chance to destroy your part. This can happen if it's a wood piece and you hit an especially hard knot, if the software program is incorrect and sends your tool into a clamp, or if something mechanical goes wrong with your machine, like a lubrication failure and the axis jams, causing a lost step. If you're working on something valuable, or have a lot of work into the part already, this can be pretty useful. As was mentioned, half-stepping is inherently more accurate than micro-stepping, with a more even torque curve. I haven't run into the "cornering" problem that Les mentions, but it seems that can be avoided by treating corners as a special problem, which sophisticated CAM software is able to do. Another thing to keep in mind is the advantage of being able to get all your support from a single source, which is not the case if you cobble something together from disparate suppliers.


That said, the Gecko G540, which is what's used in that other controller, is a pretty nice little all-in-one package which is relatively easy to implement, and I've had good luck with it. It's the best board I know of to base a do-it-yourself CNC control on.

[lsces]

Andrew is right about the safety mechanism that the closed loop error check provides, but it has to be something substantial to stall. I should have mentioned that the demo machine here is still a DSLS3000 and has a few interesting styling additions to the clamps where the mill simply ploughs through when one has cocked up a lead in or out The estop is still essential, but jobs taking several hours can safely be left running without one eye on the job ... but hopefully the next new controller can go with my mill ...

[Punisher_67]

I bought the Deepgrove1 system years ago and with Paul's help upgraded to the Gecko 540 . Absolutely awesome system at almost half the price .

[smo10018]

Thanks very much everyone. Definitely much to consider before making a decision. So if a person were to start with the basic CNC ready Taig which stepper motors and controller would you prefer?

I am a custom knifemaker so the vast majority of use from this machine would be working with Titanium and Stainless steels. A couple of friends have the DSLS3000 machines and like them I was just surprised at the price difference between the two complete kits mentioned.

Sean

[lsces]

Actually what is perhaps a better buy for the money is CNC Taig Micro Mill with Servo Motors for Coordinate Positioning Movements which uses servo's to provide the closed loop solution. Since you are in Canada, the 60Hz problem we have bringing the machines into Europe does not apply. Super-tech also provide an open loop stepper motor solution using the same computer software at a lower price, but still more than capable of the work you plan. Only problem with Dennis's offering is that there is no facility to drive the fourth axis if you need that. So one switches to the alternate stepper motor options and Taig CNC Mill Packages - Soigeneris.com provide an alternative packaging of the same hardware as Deepgroove provide.

[GoofOff]

Am looking at buying a taig CNC Mill in the next few months and am wondering what I am missing when comparing the ready to go Deepgroove cnc mill compared to the dsls3000 version? The price difference is quite large but I don't see why? Can anyone enlighten me on this? Is there a decided advantage to the DSLS3000 version?

I have no experience with cnc milling which may be why I am not seeing the difference.

Thanks for the help.

Sean

Sean,
I am also looking for a desktop CNC and gained some knowledge from another thread asking questions but still undecided. I am curious as to which CNC machine you decided to purchase? Also, you were comparing the Deepgroove1 to the dsls3000 but I am wondering if you ever compared the 2927 instead of the dsls or any of the others mentioned in answers to your question?
Thank You,
Wayne