New Machine Build- SyiL X4 Speed Master 24000Rpm Release

[ataxy]

Originally Posted by wrieken Hi, I looked at the site. Seems not to support metric system and costs $14,000 USD with 4th axis. With the possible cheapest being about $10K w/4th axis. Not to meantion up to $20K. In that case, I would pay $20K more and get a HAAS SUPERMINIMILL2. Not metric friendly it seems. But looks nice though. Will...

i dont know if its me but since tormach uses mach3 you would just have to set the work unit to metric but this of course does not change the price tag

[philbur]

You can choose either either metric or imperial. It is of course a function of the software not the hardware.

With regard to the Haas, if you pay 3 times the price you would expct 3 times the machine. I don't understand the comparison.

Phil

Originally Posted by wrieken Hi, I looked at the site. Seems not to support metric system and costs $14,000 USD with 4th axis. With the possible cheapest being about $10K w/4th axis. Not to meantion up to $20K. In that case, I would pay $20K more and get a HAAS SUPERMINIMILL2. Not metric friendly it seems. But looks nice though. Will...

[wrieken]

Originally Posted by philbur You can choose either either metric or imperial. It is of course a function of the software not the hardware. With regard to the Haas, if you pay 3 times the price you would expct 3 times the machine. I don't understand the comparison. Phil

Hi Phil,

On the metric aspect. I went back and found the metric tooling. So problem solved.

On the price. A HAAS MINIMILL2 w/4th-axis is about $42,000. Compared to the $20,000 price of the Tormach. If one was too consider the ease of use of the HAAS and so on. Twice the price for 16 times the precision and a bigger table and direct printing from CAD data via ethernet is not a bad deal. So, not really 3 times, about twice.

Before I choose to buy the Syil X4+ and the HAAS (in my case the more expensive HAAS SUPERMINIMILL2) I took a look at the Tormach and nearly purchased it. However, when priceing on the X4+ with all tooling and 4th axis was about $7,000. A little lower than just a 3-axis Tormack mill.

I am not knocking the Tormach. I think it looks pretty good, has nice specs, and has an even slightly bigger table and twice the Z-axis of the Syil X4+.

Problem for me is "options". Tormach nickels and dimes you to death until your flat broke in my opinon. By the time you get all of the options your bankrupt. So if you get the Syil w/4th axis for $5,000 and you can have a little more money left over to get some nice tooling.

I do like the Tormach stands. They are very very nice. Would like to get just that for my Syil Mills. Syil could learn a lot from Tormach on how to make a good stand. The Stand Syil sells is S*$T compared to Tormach.


Will...

[sharpshooter90]

That nickel and dime options concept was probably taken directly from the auto industry-
Suck you in with a teaser price and then add all the stuff to actually make it work. We all know where that can lead.

[wrieken]

Originally Posted by sharpshooter90 That nickel and dime options concept was probably taken directly from the auto industry- Suck you in with a teaser price and then add all the stuff to actually make it work. We all know where that can lead.

Perhaps a good example of why Americans don't buy American cars. They don't work when you need them. No wonder those auto crooks need to steal another $50B to keep thier crooked operations running. The Mafia could'nt have done it better. Strange how the Mafia is considered a terrorist organization and the American auto industry isn't. I just don't see the difference between them when it comes to robbing people.

Will...

[ataxy]

i think this is going of topic

[philbur]

I have to say I think that doing comparisons across performance levels is pretty much a pointless exercise. Yes the higher priced machine is more capable. Whether that extra performance is value for money depends on whether you need or have a use for that performance. You could argue until the cows come home as to whether a Mazda MX-5 is a better value for money sports car than a Ferrari 360, the question has no meaning.

Phil

Originally Posted by wrieken Hi Phil, On the metric aspect. I went back and found the metric tooling. So problem solved. On the price. A HAAS MINIMILL2 w/4th-axis is about $42,000. Compared to the $20,000 price of the Tormach. If one was too consider the ease of use of the HAAS and so on. Twice the price for 16 times the precision and a bigger table and direct printing from CAD data via ethernet is not a bad deal. So, not really 3 times, about twice. Before I choose to buy the Syil X4+ and the HAAS (in my case the more expensive HAAS SUPERMINIMILL2) I took a look at the Tormach and nearly purchased it. However, when priceing on the X4+ with all tooling and 4th axis was about $7,000. A little lower than just a 3-axis Tormack mill. I am not knocking the Tormach. I think it looks pretty good, has nice specs, and has an even slightly bigger table and twice the Z-axis of the Syil X4+. Problem for me is "options". Tormach nickels and dimes you to death until your flat broke in my opinon. By the time you get all of the options your bankrupt. So if you get the Syil w/4th axis for $5,000 and you can have a little more money left over to get some nice tooling. I do like the Tormach stands. They are very very nice. Would like to get just that for my Syil Mills. Syil could learn a lot from Tormach on how to make a good stand. The Stand Syil sells is S* compared to Tormach. Will...

[AviatorDave]

Originally Posted by philbur You can engrave small letters on a cylinder (as long as the cylinder has a reasonably large diameter) using only x and y, The 4 axis is only used for indexing between letters. Phil for indexing

I understand what you mean about only indexing between letters, as in going from row to row.

But what's the lower diameter limit for engraving a cylinder using on only x and y? Some things I want to engrave are about 1/2" in diameter.

I was thinking that for cylindrical engraving the Z axis pretty much stays in one place, the vertical portion of engraving is done with 4th axis rotation, the horizontal component of the engraving with the X axis motion. There would be no Y axis movement at all.

I realize that you could get a similar cut by not rotating the part, and using Y and Z simultaneously for the vertical portion with a smaller diameter, and then for a large diameter not even moving Z. But that would mean that the cutter isn't always cutting along a radial.

[philbur]

If you need to do engraving on small diameters then you can do the gcode in x and y and then transpose the y-axis with the a-axis, together with linear interpolation on the a-axis (Mach3).

If you use rotary table movements during engraving you need good backlash control. This means that as a minimum your RT needs backlash adjustment on the worm/gear and also on the worm shaft. The cheaper the RT the less BL adjustments that will be possible, simple economics.

My 8" Vertex RT, after adjustment, has less than 0.001" oan 8" diameter, which means less than 0.0000625" on a 0.5" diameter workpiece.

Phil

Originally Posted by AviatorDave I understand what you mean about only indexing between letters, as in going from row to row. But what's the lower diameter limit for engraving a cylinder using on only x and y? Some things I want to engrave are about 1/2" in diameter. I was thinking that for cylindrical engraving the Z axis pretty much stays in one place, the vertical portion of engraving is done with 4th axis rotation, the horizontal component of the engraving with the X axis motion. There would be no Y axis movement at all. I realize that you could get a similar cut by not rotating the part, and using Y and Z simultaneously for the vertical portion with a smaller diameter, and then for a large diameter not even moving Z. But that would mean that the cutter isn't always cutting along a radial.

[AviatorDave]

I was looking at the specs for the X4 Speedmaster - are those spindle speeds correct? 8000-24000? The 24,000rpm could be useful, but the minimum of 8000 would sure limit a lot of operations.

[ataxy]

yep 8000 is correct