New Syil SX3 CNC problems

[Mike F]

I recently invested in an SX3 CNC, from Syil UK, to compliment my large, homegrown CNC router/mill. After delivery I painstakingly dismantled it, cleaned it and lapped the ways and everything moves just fine. I set up Mach3 to cater for mm rather than inches and was most impressed that everything worked first time. However, after approximately ten minutes the steppers get too hot to handle and a bit later all the motors start jittering and the yellow LEDs on the drives all light up.

I believe, from another post, that the yellow LEDs indicate overheating and that is without the control panel being connected to the machine. If this is what is happening, how can I avoid it? Is it something to do with running it from 240v?

Also, my motor conrol board does not have a jumper on it for setting the correct speed yet the version of board seems to be a later one than the instructions show. Does the new board not require a jumper setting?

It is a good looking machine and seems to work just fine but if I can get no more than ten minutes out of it, it's worthless to me. Any ideas?

Mike

[Babba]

Hello Mike.

I've had my UK SX3 for a couple of months now and have noticed the steppers getting warm but not to hot to handle, I've run mine with no probs for periods over 1hr.

I've been advised to run mine on 110v after replacing the spindle control board, the board has a relay which prefers 110v and I'm told several in the UK have failed.

You say you've set up Mach3 to use mm's? I'm not that familiar with Mach3 (yet) to guess that your problem may be related to this but I use the profile for mm's available on the Syil Australia website. If you can't find it send an e.mail to mick@<<furyproducts>>.co.uk (lose the << >>) and I'll forward a copy.

Try it with this profile in a clean install of Mach3 to see if they still overheat.

I haven't yet looked for the speed jumper as access to the rear of my machine requires a small child with good gymnastic skills but having fitted the spindle upgrade it certainly does not register the correct speed. Is your board marked with a version number?

Good luck.

[jinu117]

It is possible that steppers are getting more amperage than it should. Have you looked at amerage reading from the control board?

[Mike F]

Babba,

I have noticed your posts on the Zone concerning the SX3 - I have no problems with Mach as I use it on my homebuilt machine and Mach is working just fine. I am pretty sure it has something to do with operating at 240v but as I am electrically challenged, I don't have a clue as to where to start looking.

Jinu117 - As above, I read somewhere else that someone was complaining of extremely hot steppers and they turned down the amps but there was no clue as to how to achieve it. If someone can point me in the right direction, I will give it a go. I appreciate that steppers can and do run fairly hot but my main problem is probably with the stepper drivers overheating rather than the motors themselves. My first post explains that the yellow, overheating LED lights up on all the drives after about ten minutes - not all at once but one fairly closely following the others. This would suggest to me that something is not quite right with the supply but what, I don't know.

Mike

[Greolt]

Mike

I have one of the early Syil converted X3s. I am presuming they are still using the same drives.

There is a setting on the dip switches to set up "Auto Half Current" (that's what it's called in the manual )

This reduces the current to the motors when they are idle for more than a predetermined time.

I have this set on mine and they never get more than warm.

I would be checking what voltage is being supplied from the power supply. Mine is 48 volts.

Then there is the issue of the amperage setting on the drives. This is adjusted via a trimpot. Shouls be set to 3 amps.

However the manual says nothing about this. Just that it is set with the trimpot. No procedure or test point or anything.

I asked Syil so many times for some info on this that I gave up in the end.

They just either ignored my requests or resent the manual which says nothing. I believe they just don't know. Or didn't at that time anyway.

This is a thread in which I sought help from the gurus. How to set amps on driver?

In the end I just put my multimeter set to read amps in series with one motor winding, then microstepped till it read highest (full step) and adjusted the trimpot till it read 2.8 amps.

Now this is all just so much waffle if you do not have the same drives as I do but I think it is likely that you do.

Here is a pic. Not great but the only one I have.

Greg

[Babba]

Originally Posted by Mike F Babba, I have noticed your posts on the Zone concerning the SX3 - I have no problems with Mach as I use it on my homebuilt machine and Mach is working just fine. I am pretty sure it has something to do with operating at 240v but as I am electrically challenged, I don't have a clue as to where to start looking.

Just thought maybe steps/motor tuning or something else in Mach3 may be overworking the motors. Let us know when you solve it.

[hughlss]

Adjusting the amperage on the newer drivers should be part of the setting up - the juddering of the motors is a symptom that the factory setting is incorrect.
Switch off - remove the green cable from one of the drivers, connect a multimeter in series (one meter terminal in the green cable's terminal and t'other connected to the green cable - for those, like me, electronically illiterate!) Switch on and the reading needs to be 3 amps but probably isn't.
The adjustment is made by the small pot.adjuster on the same front surface of the driver - turn it until the reading is correct. Then repeat for the other drivers.
For UK SX3 owners - we are working on a fix for the circuit board problem which will either mean an upgrade of the relay on the board, or installing a small transformer to supply the display separately which seems to do the trick.
I am amazed that Sieg have not sorted this out as yet, and seem content to just supply circuit boards, one after the other. Syil (China) are brilliant at supplying whatever parts are required.

Hugh

[Mike F]

Greg,

Thanks for the response - I will look for the half current setting and check on the amps. Hugh has given a simpler method of checking this by just putting an ammeter between the green wire from the drive and the drive itself - see his reply.

Hugh,

Thanks for the quick replies both here and by PM. I'll get onto that
right away and report back.

Greg (Greolt) from CNCZone mentioned a setting that reduces current by half
when axis is idling. Is this setting still available and if so, how is it
set? I must say that the manual, on the CD you sent, seems a little lacking
in detail and it is these small, frustrating things that are most annoying
when trying to track them down.

Overall, very pleased with the machine so far and once I get these little
niggles sorted, it will be a beast :-)

Mike

[Mike F]

Right, tried setting the amperage from the drives but found it difficult to get a steady reading on the meter. If I jogged the axis one way, I got something like -1.7A then jog it the other way and got +3.12A. These numbers were pretty repeatable so I took the highest and adjusted it to read more or less 3A.

Some of the drives were well under 3A so I am thinking that hot steppers is not an issue. However some fifteen minutes into the session and the motors started twitching and every time the centre, yellow LED on each of the drives blinked, it was accompanied by a motor twitch. After a very short period one of the yellow LEDs lit permanently and all drives were lost.

This is definitely looking like a drive issue not a stepper issue - the drives are simply overheating. What is the specification for the power supply? Is there something that should be changed if operating from 240v? Do I have to get a 110v transformer?

I notice that the breakout board has its own 240v - 12v transformer - would this still work OK if I was powering the whole lot from 110v?

Mike

[phidab]

Hello everybody,
I am a french user of the syil SX3 cnc kit and as some of you I have troubles with stepper drivers and spindle upgrade board.
the syil's documentation is quite poor on the electronics part of their kit.
This post only to point out ( specially to Greg - "greolt" ) that a very good source of informations on the web site http://koeiners.nl is no more available (unfortunately the site is not active since months)
Best regards.
Philippe Baudot

[Oldmanandhistoy]

Originally Posted by Mike F Right, tried setting the amperage from the drives but found it difficult to get a steady reading on the meter. If I jogged the axis one way, I got something like -1.7A then jog it the other way and got +3.12A. These numbers were pretty repeatable so I took the highest and adjusted it to read more or less 3A. Some of the drives were well under 3A so I am thinking that hot steppers is not an issue. However some fifteen minutes into the session and the motors started twitching and every time the centre, yellow LED on each of the drives blinked, it was accompanied by a motor twitch. After a very short period one of the yellow LEDs lit permanently and all drives were lost. This is definitely looking like a drive issue not a stepper issue - the drives are simply overheating. What is the specification for the power supply? Is there something that should be changed if operating from 240v? Do I have to get a 110v transformer? I notice that the breakout board has its own 240v - 12v transformer - would this still work OK if I was powering the whole lot from 110v? Mike

Hi Mike,

It sounds to me that something is over heating. When you say your steppers are getting hot, how hot is hot? They are probably rated to a max of around 80-100 degrees C (coil temperature NOT case temperature). I have stepper motors that get too hot to touch for more than a few seconds and when measuring the case are 60 degrees C so about their max. If you keep running them hotter than they should be they will start to permanently loose power.

Doesn’t the current to the drives vary depending on the load on the stepper motor? Have you tried touching the drives after they fault (power disconnected)? The case should be no more than just warm.

John

[Mike F]

John,

I am now sure it is the drives that are over heating. At the point where they fail, and the yellow LED is permanently lit, the drives are quite warm and you can feel the heat radiating from them. They are nowhere near as hot as the steppers. My homebuilt machine has servos driven by Geckos and they, nor the servo motors, even get warm to touch so I was quite surprised just how much heat was generated by the Syil machine.

I don't think it has anything to do with load on the steppers as I have tried switching the machine on and not moving any of the axes and after a time the drives overheat and fault.

Mike