Troubleshooting syil x3

[Wheazel]

I posted a similar thread in the benchmill section but i figured this might be a better spot.

Some months ago me and my father bought a used Syil X3 conversion 3axis cnc machine. It was working ok for a while and we were basically learning from 0.
Now we have run into several problems and none of us are very familiar with cnc machine electronics.

The mill runs from an Ubuntu machine with EMC2.

The first problem we had was that the display on the front that shows spindle rpm, got stuck at 0080. Everything else worked ok.
Next problem was when the Z axis went into some sort of "half speed" mode. The software on the computer displayed a much faster movement than the z axis actually travelled.
(This could suddenly be ok if the mill was turned on for a while, got warm and then restarted)
Most recent in the line of problems is that when the mill is turned on, EMC2 gets an emergency stop signal, and the mill can not be run at all. Ontop of that, the front display is now completely dead.
The green light on the front indicates electric tension to the mill, and we can hear a main relay or similar connecting and disconnecting when turning on/off.
The motordrivers have 3 leds and all are showing the red led lit.

Advice on where to start this mess is appreciated. I know basic electrics but I have no idea of the electronics in the mill. I got a multimeter for measurements. So far we tried to bridge the emergency stop button without result. Also took the mill apart and cleaned up as much as we could inside it. Can't find any burnt fuses(Might not have found all) or other damaged componens that we visually can locate.

Thanks for reading.
/Henrik

[neilw20]

Please take some photos of the PCBs so we know what version you have. Then I will post circuits if I have them.

I have never used with EMC2 so can't help with config needs. Only Mach3. Mach3 has many more features, I believe.
There is a varying frequency signal to the display board. With no signal it will show 80 when running.
It takes a tacho signal from the motor PCB.
If the display is blank, and all still works, then the display is most likely dead.

Be very careful around the front panel. TURN POWER OFF, and lower quill so the vernier does not damage the PCB when removing front panel.

Any shorts to chassis will almost certainly kill some/all PCBs!!

[Wheazel]

Here are some pictures of the electronics. Can get more pics of better quality if required.

/Henrik

[neilw20]

I know the model now.
I don't have circuits of the PCB with the relays on it.
It converts the Mach3 signals for speed control when the the front panel switch is not on local.
If you plug the front panel ribbon direct to the motor PCB, you can bypass this PCB to see if it is causing the problem.
All these files (except the BOB circuit) have been scrounged off the web.
There may be errors in them.

[Wheazel]

Thank you for taking the time to write some answers. I have had a very busy week at the university myself, but got some time this morning to investigate the mill.

I do not understand how to plug the front panel ribbon directly to the motor pcb. Do you mean making jumpercables and figuring out from the schematics where to manipulate signals?

[neilw20]

There is a cable running between the speed board with the relays to the motor PCB.
The front panel cable plugs into the speed board.

Unplug from the speed board and plug direct to the motor PCB.

Then you have the non CNC version of the standard mill.

If it works the same (badly), then the problem is in the board in the head.
If it works normally then the control board has a problem.

The control board actually fakes the front panel button pushing.
It is a stupid implementation of a CNC interface for speed control.

One day I might design a new one that works.
No one has shown interest, so I might never bother.

Unless there is a tool changer on the machine, CNC spindle control has no real benefit, unless you want it to turn off after 2 hours unattended operation; nothing an alarm clock won't fix.

[Wheazel]

I did try connecting past the motorcontroller. No improvement.
Up to the left on the picture you can see the stopbutton active. Usually you can deacivate it by pressing the on button beside it, but since the error happened the stop button is permanent while the mill is turned on.

[neilw20]

From the circuits I supplied you need to figure why ES is active.
Faulty switch? Broken wire? ES is normally closed, so a break will cause EStop.
Look at the port states on the PC. ES on/off should make the ES bit change, but not if a wire is broken.
Why has the wire behind the display been taped up? Is there damage there?
The RED message on my frst post is important, and probably relevant.
One short there, and POOF!

[PEU]

I know the model now.
I don't have circuits of the PCB with the relays on it.
It converts the Mach3 signals for speed control when the the front panel switch is not on local.
If you plug the front panel ribbon direct to the motor PCB, you can bypass this PCB to see if it is causing the problem.
All these files (except the BOB circuit) have been scrounged off the web.
There may be errors in them.

Hi Neil,

Sorry for resurrecting an old post

A project appeared that could make good use of an old speed board + motor I had collecting dust, it was taken away from an SX3.

These are the parts I have: http://i.imgur.com/3QDXlUe.jpg plus the motor

I just want to be able to manually control speed, no need for display or cnc control.
Do you know if the speed board can be configured to do this, either by pwm, 0-10v or another control method? a simple potentiometer for speed will do.

Thanks!


Pablo

[Al_The_Man]

IIRC that controller uses a simple PB + & - contact closure to register the input to the Micro controller IC.
So it would not be that conducive to pot or PWM.
You would have to replace the 2 PB's with an up/dwn pulser, maybe?
I did run one motor off of a A-M-C BLDC controller powered from 240vac and managed to get the rated rpm out of the motor.
Al.

[neilw20]

Hi Pablo,

Just hook it up and leave the front panel boards disconnected.
I think a 10K pot connected like this:
See SX3-powerboard for the connections.


Miscellaneous information in gray:
Just to confuse things the pin number on the motor board (diagram) are in the reverse order to the ones on the front panel board. The cable optionally can go via the CNC control board which in turn goes to the BOB (not in your picture).
I haven't got a circuit of the control board in your picture, and we can skip that.

You can connect the thick black cable direct from motor board to the the pushbutton board and use the buttons.
I haven't tried it but it should work.
Double check the ground pin is as intended both ends.!!!
The similar looking 10 pin connector pin 1's got to each other.
0v GND near middle of pushbutton board. On motor board they are near the corner.
BOB circuit attached so you can see what connects to the control board (which you don't need either)

In the motor diagram (not of my doing) some of the labels to SV1 are not exactly right.

pin 10 as labeled.
pin 9 is a tacho out signal from one of the hall phases. - do not connect, is best
pin 8 direction control direct to the U6.
pin 6 is 0-5v speed control.



On the motor board
top of pot to pin 4 (+6v)
arm of pot to SV1, pin 6
bottom of pot to pin 3 GND which is actually -160v!!
on CN2 K3-K4 need bridging so the relay comes on.
Continually using an ESTOP circuit to turn this on and off will cause premature failure of the relay.

GND is NOT GROUND!! All because the current limit is poorly designed.
BE CAREFUL: anything connected directly to the motor control chip U6
is marked GND and it is at -160v to ground!!!
ANYTHING SHORTED TO CHASSIS, for a millisecond will LET THE SMOKE OUT


All the optos were added because they couldn't understand the ground loops. Done properly nothing would be HOT.
U7 is a tacho chip, VERY accurate speed signal to pin 12.
C9 and C10/R13 are a poor attempt to stabilize the speed feedback.
Q3 is soft start with no diode for instant reset!! Doh!!
FIVE!! power supplies on the motor board. Someone lost the plot!!
But it does work.

Good luck, WITH CARE.

[PEU]

Hi Pablo,

Just hook it up and leave the front panel boards disconnected.
I think a 10K pot connected like this:

On the motor board
top of pot to pin 4 (+6v)
arm of pot to SV1, pin 6
bottom of pot to pin 3 GND which is actually -160v!!
on CN2 K3-K4 need bridging so the relay comes on.
Continually using an ESTOP circuit to turn this on and off will cause premature failure of the relay.

GND is NOT GROUND!! All because the current limit is poorly designed.
BE CAREFUL: anything connected directly to the motor control chip U6
is marked GND and it is at -160v to ground!!!
ANYTHING SHORTED TO CHASSIS, for a millisecond will LET THE SMOKE OUT

Thanks for the detailed explanation Neil, one question, when you say chassis, you mean any metallic part of the motor or the heatsink, or both?

Thanks again!


Pablo