Sx3 To X4 Conversion (problem)

[Rainman229]

Sx3 To Sx4 Conversion (problem)

I had Issues with my Sx3 From a front panel short out. And decided After trying to fix it with no luck i may add To Just goo for the upgrade.

The conversion was Pretty straight forward. With wire hook ups and all. Running all the wires threw was interesting and also easier then getting the old ones out. The front panel wire and connector is smaller now. This means the whole connector can slide threw the tubing. Unlike the old connector Which needs the pins removed form the harness clip to get it threw the tubing.

All the locations of the wire and connectors are located on page 77 of the x4 manual.

Got all together and ready to test in a little over an hour. Still need to swap all the front panel parts over to the x3 cover plate from the x4 cover.

But anyways got it all setup and went to test. turned it on
Everything turns on lcd has 0000 and forward and stop are on.
press reverse and forward go's out and rev is on. hit the start and stop go's off and 0000 goes to 0030 . but no motor. up the speed it beeps but still not motor. Motor hmms at times but no turning.
I've tried using the old motor but still has the same effect. I know the old motor worked as with the old board i can get full speed out of the motor but have no control of the speed out it the board. turned on full speed only.
I would have stayed with the old board setup like that. But the cnc controls would not work.

Any ideas as to why my luck seems to suck?

Edit
I have emailed Syil 3 times With no response back. Didn't want to air my problems out for everyone to see. But not sure of any other way to get Their attention. But i know they check these boards regularly

[neilw20]

If the motor hums, it can be for a number of reasons.

1. One of the phases is not connected.
2. One of the phases is swapped. Don't just try it another way... See below.
3. One or more of the hall sensor wires is not connected, or in the wrong place, or blown.

What is needed...

With these motors, the three phases need to be in the correct order.
With the hall sensors the three sensors need to be in the correct order.
As well as the correct order, U,V,W and A,B,C sensors the correct A wire must be matched with U wire.
With speed set to slowest and humming, turn the spindle by hand

1. see if it starts to run and run roughly. A phase is missing. Hall sensors probably OK
2. might just move from once stuck position to the next. Phasing/sequence is wrong.

I can describe a procedure, albeit crude, that you can get it working, but first off see if 1 or 2 above is the problem.

The procedure involves having all of the sensor wires connected and attempting to run the motor with one phase disconnected.

You can do all these tests at the slowest speed setting, and the current limiting should stop any surprises. Turn it ALL OFF before each change.

You start the motor with one phase (SAY W) disconnected, help it to start by hand.
If it does not run, move two phase wires along one to V and W form U and V and try again.
Help it to start by hand.
If it does not run, SWAP the two wires and try again.
Eventually it WILL run if all of the sensors are working correctly.
Then connect to other phase to the connection that remains.

If it runs in the wrong direction swap the A and B hall sensor wires, and start again. Always have all the sensor wires connected.

[Rainman229]

If the motor hums, it can be for a number of reasons.

1. One of the phases is not connected.
2. One of the phases is swapped. Don't just try it another way... See below.
3. One or more of the hall sensor wires is not connected, or in the wrong place, or blown.

What is needed...

With these motors, the three phases need to be in the correct order.
With the hall sensors the three sensors need to be in the correct order.
As well as the correct order, U,V,W and A,B,C sensors the correct A wire must be matched with U wire.
With speed set to slowest and humming, turn the spindle by hand

1. see if it starts to run and run roughly. A phase is missing. Hall sensors probably OK
2. might just move from once stuck position to the next. Phasing/sequence is wrong.

I can describe a procedure, albeit crude, that you can get it working, but first off see if 1 or 2 above is the problem.

The procedure involves having all of the sensor wires connected and attempting to run the motor with one phase disconnected.

You can do all these tests at the slowest speed setting, and the current limiting should stop any surprises. Turn it ALL OFF before each change.

You start the motor with one phase (SAY W) disconnected, help it to start by hand.
If it does not run, move two phase wires along one to V and W form U and V and try again.
Help it to start by hand.
If it does not run, SWAP the two wires and try again.
Eventually it WILL run if all of the sensors are working correctly.
Then connect to other phase to the connection that remains.

If it runs in the wrong direction swap the A and B hall sensor wires, and start again. Always have all the sensor wires connected.

Sorry That does Nothing. Motor is wired as the motor Sticker says. And tagged. The hall sensor wires are tagged as the sticker Says.

What would be the true odds that the motor is wired wrong?

One thing i forgot to mention is that when it does hum The motor locks up. And can not be turned at all by hand.

[neilw20]

That just what happens when phasing is wrong or a hall sensor is not working.

You can supply 5v ONLY to the hall sensors and see if all 3 signals are working.

If your moor works on previous setup, there is a wiring/phasing issue.
You need to test and analyze the signals.

[Rainman229]

That just what happens when phasing is wrong or a hall sensor is not working.

You can supply 5v ONLY to the hall sensors and see if all 3 signals are working.

If your moor works on previous setup, there is a wiring/phasing issue.
You need to test and analyze the signals.

I tried every comb possible on the motor wire same result on all possible choices.

One thing i did find that's weird Is the hall sensor wiring. The spindle control board wiring sheet in the manual says the clip goes +5,GND,SA,SB,SC,S1
But heres the odd thing when i put a tester to see voltage the gnd pin is the 5+ . Find that odd.

Edit also with the wires setup as they should be I can't get a change in the signal form the hall effects. But if i swap the 5+ and gnd i get the signals as they should be if i turn the motor by hand. But still has no effect to why the motor don't run.

[Rainman229]

After looking closely at the board The first pin is EGND and second pin Is EVCC. So Page 77 of the manual is not correct.

Now At first the motor still did not work. But decided to do the single phase thing over again. Removed the V wire from the board and turned back on and hit the start button and turn the motor by hand to start it. Bam it spins. Turn it off and plug the blue back Oh crud back to nothing. Try swapping wires back to nothing. Go back to V missing and hand start it and run it all the way to top speed. let it run there for a few seconds. Turn it off and put V back in. Now it all works.
But After turning it off and typing this i just went back to see if still worked
Guess what It's like my old lady a dick tease. Not work again.

Help me Someone really hates me

[instructor37]

After looking closely at the board The first pin is EGND and second pin Is EVCC. So Page 77 of the manual is not correct.

Now At first the motor still did not work. But decided to do the single phase thing over again. Removed the V wire from the board and turned back on and hit the start button and turn the motor by hand to start it. Bam it spins. Turn it off and plug the blue back Oh crud back to nothing. Try swapping wires back to nothing. Go back to V missing and hand start it and run it all the way to top speed. let it run there for a few seconds. Turn it off and put V back in. Now it all works.
But After turning it off and typing this i just went back to see if still worked
Help me Someone really hates me

A couple of months ago I compared you to one of those struggling Mastodons sinking in the La Brea tarpits. It was meant as humorous but serious advice to dump those Chinese controls into a trash can and buy an American system. Even if you manage to get the cobbled up Chinese stuff to work, do you think you will ever approach the machine each day with confidence that its going to work, or will it always be with tension in your gut when you hit the on button and hope there is no smoke? A good domestic system will be worth the price just for the peace of mind.
PS- Send Neil W. a gift certificate for a case of Fosters.

[neilw20]

It is almost ALWAYS poor connections, bad crimps, IC sockets etc.
My machine has worked flawlessy - 4 axis for at 1500 hour now.

Fix the poor workmanship. Tug every connection. You just proved it can work, and my instructions are not all that bad. Did all the wires go back to where they started?

Measuring the hall sensor signal must be done relative to the GND connection on the connector. It is generated by a floating supply on the motor PCB, or some such obscure place. GND is poor labeling.

[Rainman229]

A couple of months ago I compared you to one of those struggling Mastodons sinking in the La Brea tarpits. It was meant as humorous but serious advice to dump those Chinese controls into a trash can and buy an American system. Even if you manage to get the cobbled up Chinese stuff to work, do you think you will ever approach the machine each day with confidence that its going to work, or will it always be with tension in your gut when you hit the on button and hope there is no smoke? A good domestic system will be worth the price just for the peace of mind.
PS- Send Neil W. a gift certificate for a case of Fosters.

So True I've even thought about it for a while. And just went the cheap route and got the the upgrade from Syil.

It is almost ALWAYS poor connections, bad crimps, IC sockets etc.
My machine has worked flawlessy - 4 axis for at 1500 hour now.

Fix the poor workmanship. Tug every connection. You just proved it can work, and my instructions are not all that bad. Did all the wires go back to where they started?

Measuring the hall sensor signal must be done relative to the GND connection on the connector. It is generated by a floating supply on the motor PCB, or some such obscure place. GND is poor labeling.

As always neilw20 Your were right. It turned out it was a loose connection were i never thought to look. At the front panel. The harness wire that goes back to the power board wasn't fully locked in. And cause the tease.

Now it works in manual mode. Still have to test the cnc end of it.

[Rainman229]

Ok works in cnc mode with one issue

If I plug in 200rpms and start the spindle it does 3500rpms
And if i plug in 200 rpms it does 3500rpms

How do i reverse that?

[syil]

we got your email at friday,in today we will reply you by our elecontric engineer..

[neilw20]

Ok works in cnc mode with one issue

If I plug in 200rpms and start the spindle it does 3500rpms
And if i plug in 200 rpms it does 3500rpms

How do i reverse that?

1. On spindle setup page set PWM to about 595 and the minimum % to zero.
2. On the outputs change active high/low to the opposite state on the spindle step pulse.

Below about 300 RPM it will be all inaccurate. It gets no better.
It will beep incessantly in CNC mode. That's normal. If you go fast enough you can't hear it.
I just use manual mode unless it is a long job and I walk away, in which case I can't hear it anyway.