X4+ Coolant Pump Wiring


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Thread: X4+ Coolant Pump Wiring

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    Registered groundhog719's Avatar
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    Default X4+ Coolant Pump Wiring

    I am trying to get my coolant pump to work. If I understand the manual correctly I should get continuity between the 2 terminals on the 5 axis interface board marked "COM" and "KB" when I tell the pump to turn on.

    then, by applying power to one side of that relay, close the relay (by pressing the "ON" button on the faceplate in manual mode) it should complete the circuit to my pump control relay (assuming the neutral wire runs directly to the other pole of the pump control relay)?

    My problem is that nothing I do seems to make the relay on the 5 axis board close. Right now I am just trying to get it to work in manual mode (via the front plate button). After I get that working I will worry about configuring Mach3.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am in the final stages of a long project building an enclosure so I can use flood coolant without a mess. It is really frustrating when, after all of that I can't get the pump to turn on!

    Thanks
    Groundhog

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    Member neilw20's Avatar
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    In Mach3, M8 should turn on the relay. M9 turns it off.
    M7 might turn it on too.
    Front panel controlling it? dunno.
    KB and COM connect when the relay is on.
    It is good to see you are USA as the PCB spacing (creapage distance and relay pin spacing) is not rated for 240vAC only 120v.

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Registered groundhog719's Avatar
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    Neil,
    Thats how I have it figured too. However, nothing I do seems to make the relay contacts (KB and COM) close.

    The manual says that the "new" way to wire the pump is to put 24VAC to one terminal and wire the other terminal a second relay (not included?) that, in turn, controls the actual (110VAC/240VAC) to the pump. The schematic shows a wire from the power board (24VAC) to one side of the relay. The other side of the relay wired to the second relay (with the neutral wire going directly from the power board to the second relay).

    Anyhow, I'm kinda lost until I can figure how to make the relay operate. I found a replacement relay for all of 70 cents! Probably $20 freight on top of that. Maybe I'll try that?

    Thanks for your response.
    Groundhog



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    Member neilw20's Avatar
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    Can you get the relay to click on and off with M8 and M9?
    If not X4 is not in CNC mode,
    or Mach3 ports and pins setting (output 1) is not configured correctly,
    or the port is faulty, or the cable is faulty,
    or the X4 card is faulty (relay or driver device not working,
    or the jumper near the relay is not in the right place.

    From memory, the jumper should be closest to the relay.

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    I've just been testing using the face panel button in manual mode. I figure if I can get that to work I know I have the wiring right and can proceed to getting Mach3 to control the pump.

    Think I found the problem. First off there was no jumper on the pins at all. However I do get 12v there when I turn on the pump with the face plate button. Following a little further I also get 12v at the relay coil (with a jumper in place). But, still no contact at the relay terminals. My conclusion is that the relay is shot.

    I bought this mill used and it obviously was used with flood coolant. I'm guessing the coolant relay went bad and they removed the jumper?

    Anyway, I ordered a relay ($7 with freight) from China. If it doesn't show up in a reasonable amount of time I will remove the old relay and hardwire from the jumper to a relay of my own. Since I've found voltage that turns on/off with the coolant switch I know I can make something work.

    Thanks for your help.

    Groundhog



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    Default more detailed explaintion would be nice

    It would be nice if you could show some pictures or upload a vid to youtube explaining the hook up. I will have to go there soon and do that as well.



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    Registered groundhog719's Avatar
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    Well, not much to post.

    Ironically I started messing with coolant pump relay again last night.

    A few weeks ago I replaced the relay but it still didn't work. The old relay was good too. So, I gave up and continued to use my manual switch that I rigged up.

    Last night I started testing again. I confirmed that I have the proper voltages (over 12V DC when the pump should be ON and 0V when it should be OFF) at the jumper going to the relay. So I tried running wires from the jumper to a separate relay. Still would not operate the separate relay.

    So after more testing, I found that amperage is only 1.2mA. I guess that isn't enough amperage to operate the relay.

    I'm lost again. I don't know anyone who can diagnose (and repair) problems at the board level. So, until some AH-HA moment happens I guess I'll continue with the manual switch.

    Sorry. If I ever find a solution I'll let you know.

    Mike aka Groundhog



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    Member neilw20's Avatar
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    Let us see some detailed photos, so we know what version boards you have.



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    Neil,

    The first picture is the board in place. The replacement relay (shown) is labeled 24V. It tested OK on 12V, but that isn't the problem anyway. I can't get any relay to work (I have 3 that I'm trying - 2 are definitely 12VDC coils). Anyway, I removed it (second photo) and will re-install the original (working) 12VDC relay.
    The jumper (J3) in the photo is lacking the black jumper block only to make a clearer photo. Normally pins 2 and 3 (the top pair) are jumped.

    Notice the terminals in the second photo marked "?". There is nothing hooked up to these terminals (labeled "N-CON / FLOOD" on the board).

    The 2 terminals above the ones marked "FLOOD" are marked "12V IN / POWER". My manual says these should be 12VAC. However, the power supplied (from the power board) is 12VDC as is the original relay.

    I don't think I'm getting the 12V negative to the relay coil. I can't find anything on the board with continuity to the top hole (top side of the coil).

    Hope you have an idea or two. I've pretty much exhausted what I know and a lot of guessing on top of that.

    Thanks
    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X4+ Coolant Pump Wiring-relay-1-jpg   X4+ Coolant Pump Wiring-relay-2-jpg  


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    Member neilw20's Avatar
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    J3 needs jumper on pins nearest the relay.
    N and COM - FLOOD can be wired to an external 12v relay coil. Overloading can damage the BOB.
    These terminals are intended to drive a relay with higher voltage rating. PC relay creepage distance fail for 240v spec. ok for 110.
    You can put 12VAC or DC in to the power terminals.
    It is either pin 3 or 9 is the Mach3 signal to operate the coolant.

    Ref:
    http://www.syil.com/product_docs/Mac...60s_manual.pdf

    The relay: Rather expensive. You will find cheaper elsewhere
    Buy Non-Latching Relays Relay,pcb,SPCO,10A,12Vdc Finder 36.11.9.012.4001 online from RS for next day delivery.

    Last edited by neilw20; 06-14-2012 at 09:57 PM. Reason: added link


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    I understand all of that and have done it.

    I am just not getting 12V (at enough amperage) to the legs of the relay.

    I have an external coil I can try using the "FLOOD" terminals, but if i remember right I checked those terminals to see if I had voltage and did not.

    I am not even using Mach3 to test the relay. Just using the button on the mill face plate.

    Thanks
    Mike



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    The uln2003 driver may have a damaged output.
    IC10 pin 14
    Measure the pin with meter on diode mode, red lead to pin 14 and black to pin 9.
    Should read similar to pins 10-13 and 15-16.

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    OK. You're getting to my limits but I can follow directions! I had to look up the pin placements.

    All pins read 0.768V. That's by holding the black lead on pin 9 and testing each in turn (on the same side of the chip - pins 10 through 16) with the red lead.

    Thanks again for the help. The only other person I know that might be able to help is a friend who lives in Canada, but is at home in Adelaide for his mum's 90th b-day.

    Mike



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    MIKE: At least we are the same age.
    Em,ail me if you want to chat on skype.

    Super X3. 3600rpm. Sheridan 6"x24" Lathe + more. THREE ways to fix things: The RIGHT way, the OTHER way, and maybe YOUR way, which is possibly a FASTER WRONG WAY!


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    Don't have skype, but will look into it. Anyhow, it's my bed time.

    The mill is just for hobby use, so controlling the flood coolant manually isn't that big of a deal. More that I just like everything to work as it should.

    I'll email later

    Mike



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    Default air coolant

    I have just realized that I have [ from a previous project] from EXAIR.com both a super air amplifier and a spot cooler. Seems like these would be better than liquid coolant ; would'nt they?

    I don't know enough about milling to know if these would be sufficent enough ; so perhaps you experts could put in a few words?

    Thanks,

    Will...



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    Default Re: X4+ Coolant Pump Wiring

    Did you ever solve your problem? I have an X4 with factory installed coolant pump, but I have a different problem. I added a Smoothstepper PCB and now the coolant contactor is tripping the USB line. I can advise you on the factory setup which includes a second contactor (24VAC). Let me know and I'll send you a couple of pix and details on the install.



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    Default Re: X4+ Coolant Pump Wiring

    Tom,
    No, I never solved the problem.

    I moved to Kansas and just got my shop set up again (have a nice 20x20 air conditioned building this time!) but still using a manual switch for the pump.

    Any help is greatly appreciated!



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